Transport Committee on Feb. 8th, 2011

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

For some it's the number of accidents. All of it is part of the criteria. The number of incidents would certainly factor into it, but it's also the volume of traffic, sight lines, speed of traffic, all of those and probably more.

Maybe Luc could give us even more criteria.

[Luc Bourdon]

First there is the history behind the crossing, how many accidents. There's the cross-product of vehicles and trains; whether something happened recently; the number of complaints we receive; if for whatever reason there has been a lot of urban development around a crossing where there was no history three years ago and now it's becoming more problematic. As well, we'll do a risk assessment of the crossings and we'll determine which ones should be dealt with first. That's how we determine the list.

So far, statistics have shown that for the crossings that were improved, accidents went down by more than 80%, so it's pretty effective.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

On the topic of urban development, Minister, as you know, there is going to be a lot heavier traffic going into the GTA. For example, CP is bypassing part of eastern Ontario and taking the direct line right to Toronto. If anything needs to go from eastern Ontario, it goes to Toronto and then back up. This causes greater congestion and more rail traffic on the way to the GTA.

In addition to more urbanization, what measures would your ministry be taking to further safeguard the people in Toronto? They, too, have had a major derailment in addition to the one you described recently. Back in 1979 or 1980 there was a derailment in Mississauga that required an evacuation as a consequence of chlorine gas, I believe it was.

What can you tell us that we're doing, as a government, to ensure the safety of the people in the Toronto area?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

It's a very good question. In the Pickering area there is a stretch of railway where I think there is some of the highest density of train traffic in Canada. There were a number of derailments. We want to assess every one of those and discern what can be done to mitigate the kinds of risks that are there. This act will help, certainly. But there is a continuous assessment on the grade-crossing side of it to try to alleviate the pressures there. As you said, if we can improve 80% just with this one program alone, that's very significant.

We have seen a continual reduction in the number of incidents of railway deaths and accidents over the last couple of years since this program started. We still have too many. I'm not saying we're there yet. I'm just saying that we have come a long way, but we have to continue the pressure to be able to address that situation.

With regard to volume of traffic, the railways make those commercial decisions. We don't interfere that way. They're not changing the track; the track is there. We're just trying to make sure that when they run on that track it's as safe as it possibly can be.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Are there inspections of the railbeds as well?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Yes, railbeds, rolling tracks, and so on.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We talked about derailments and accidents. Aside from derailments, going specifically to accidents, and I'm not talking about suicides, but what sorts of reasons are behind the accidents that occur at rail crossings or otherwise?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

There are a multitude of them, and every one of them gets inspected and analyzed. Sometimes it's weather; sometimes it's somebody not paying attention. There are all kinds of reasons. It's no different from any major accident in the air. We want to inspect it. We want to learn from it. We want to try to address it. If there is something we can do to make it safer, that's where we want to go. It's all part of the culture of safety that we need to make certain that we continue to promote when it comes to rail.

Railway traffic movement, both passenger and produce, is going to do nothing but increase in Canada. We have some of the safest railways in the world. That doesn't mean we can't do better. We have to keep the pressure on.

That's what this bill really is all about. It's because of the good work of this committee and the good work of the review of the act earlier that these recommendations are coming forward. We've put them in this bill. Hopefully we'll be able to make some very good changes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Minister, many of my communities have benefited. They believe strongly in the upgrades to the crossings. I know it's an ongoing challenge, but there is a lot of demand out there, and whatever you can do would be greatly appreciated.

I'm going to give every side one minute for one final comment. If you don't have one, that's fine. Then we'll move to the end of the meeting.

Mr. Bevington, one minute.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

It's my understanding there are about 44,000 crossings in Canada. Is that the kind of number we're dealing with? And we're dedicating $21 million--

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

It's $28 million.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

—$28 million--to crossings that in some cases to fix in a proper fashion cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Is that correct? We have a way to go in terms of the financing of it.

What in this bill would drive companies to improve their standards for level crossings without the support of the federal government?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

All of the things to make sure they comply.

Every crossing has different reasons for why there was an incident there. They have to be inspected. Was it the track? Is it the grade coming up? Is it the lights on it? Is it rolling track or the actual track itself? There are lots of different things that can cause a problem. They all have to be discerned, and we have to address it.

All that we know is we're not done yet. We have to work harder, and we are making a considerable number of gains with regard to those incidents.

You ask if $28 million is enough. That's over a couple of years. We've made great strides with those dollars since it was announced in the 2009 budget.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

A final comment, Mr. Jean?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for attending today.

In particular, I want to let you know, Minister, that all the committee members, including Mr. McCallum and Monsieur Guimond and Mr. Bevington, from all parties, have agreed to have extra meetings so we can make sure all regular meetings are going to be for Bill C-33 until it's put through. I want to let you know that all members have agreed to do that, so that we have extra sittings. I think that shows cooperation on the part of all parties.

I don't want to pick on anyone, but I understand the mayor of Pickering has approached you several times in relation to this particular bill. I understand other mayors around the GTA in particular are very interested in this bill. I was wondering if you could—not give us specifics on the conversations, because I understand some are in the hundreds or so, as far as the mayor of Pickering and the department are concerned—give us information on general terms, general information, general input by mayors in that region, particularly by politicians in the GTA and how they feel about this particular act.

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Sure.

When the incident happened, and there were a number of incidents over a very short number of years in that area, the mayor of Pickering—we were down and actually made the announcement there—was very excited. He read the bill, saw what we were trying to do, and said this was exactly the kind of thing he was looking for over the last number of years, actually pushing governments to bring in a piece of legislation like this.

When you're out there and you introduce a piece of legislation, you wonder who's going to support it and who's not going to support it—who it's giving trouble to and who's applauding it. I can tell you, the number of people in this country who are standing on the side applauding it is immense. The ones pushing against it are very few and hard to find. That tells you it's long overdue.

This hasn't got anything to do with politics. This piece of legislation really is in the best interest of the industry as well as the country. I certainly encourage all of your support.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Minister, and the support people who have helped us today. We appreciate your time.

Again, for the information of the committee, on Thursday we will be bringing other witnesses. We will have staff as well as other witnesses for that two hours. So come ready to ask more questions.

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.