Evidence of meeting #45 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was railways.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Obviously, and by definition, a bill dealing with rail safety is a bill dealing with human life and it must therefore be looked at very seriously.
I worked for 16 years in the pulp and paper industry. My English-speaking colleagues who have visited plants during electoral campaigns or who have worked in that industry all know that its basic motto is always ”safety first”. Unfortunately, the way companies behave does not always correspond to their public statements.
Minister, you or one of your colleagues will probably be asked to appear again on the issue of safety measures relating to the repair of airplanes. Under the present system, companies can self-regulate. However, we have seen the results of such a system in the meat-packing industry and in the farm industry. I do not know if that is part of the philosophy of the Conservative government.
Does that exist in the railway industry or can people from Transport Canada appear unannounced to carry out in-depth inspections?
Conservative
Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB
I think that's a very good question. If I can recapture what you're saying--and catch me if I'm wrong-- you're suggesting that if we just leave this up to the railway companies to monitor themselves, it likely won't happen. The culture of safety has to be something for which we set up the regulations and we make sure they're enforced.
The question, I believe, is whether this act makes certain they're enforced. We have put a considerable amount of money into making sure that does take place. I think one of the biggest things to ensuring that is in the act itself, and that is having an executive that will be held accountable if there is not compliance with the regulations, as well as having whistleblower protection. You're right, we want to set up a culture of safety in the railways, and some of the recommendations coming from this committee and past committees, as well as a review of the act, have been to put that in the act.
They are there, and it's all about changing the culture of safety on our railways. We will have inspectors to make certain they comply and we will also have the muscle to be able to penalize appropriately if they are not complied with. I hope that answers your question.
Luc would like to add something.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I believe you are referring to the safety management systems. This is a regulation that has been implemented in 2001 in the railway industry, that is to say for close to 10 years. The safety management systems have never replaced our inspection system. Furthermore, the additional resources that we have obtained have allowed us to add 25 inspectors in the regions. In total, 56 additional persons have been appointed for rail safety.
It is quite clearly stated in the regulation relating to safety management systems, namely in clause 2.4, that we have to ensure that railways always comply with all existing regulations. This system would not replace the old system, it would improve it. Also, it is not at all a matter of self-regulation.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I do not want to put you on the spot but I have a question: how many rail movements are there in Canada every day?
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
There are 777 rail movements for the whole of Canada?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
That is about the daily number.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
What is the total number of inspectors?
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
We will soon have close to 230 people working in the field of rail safety.
Bloc
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Considering the systems we have in place, I can tell you that at this time CP and CN are considered the two safest railway companies in North America. Their number of accidents is relatively low. It is just over one per million trains.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I had put a question to someone at CN. My colleague the minister states that executives will be made accountable. That may be good but if an executive brings a wreath at the funeral parlor and shakes the hands of the widow and the children, nobody wants that. I do not want to hold you personally responsible. Someone at CN has told me that there has been one death in the past year. There have been about 10 vehicle collisions at railway crossings. There have been suicides too.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I know someone — not a parent but someone I know — who waited 10 minutes for a train to arrive and quietly walk on the tracks.
I am just preparing you psychologically: we will certainly come back to the issue of self-regulation in the air transport industry.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I can assure you there is none in the railway industry and that the bill includes two additional measures that did not exist in the past. The first one is the power to impose financial penalties up to a maximum of $50,000 for individuals and $250,000 for companies.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
We have also raised the amount allowed in legal proceedings. It can go up to $1 million per day of non-compliance, which we did not have previously.
