Transport Committee on Feb. 10th, 2011

[Luc Bourdon]

It's in a lot of safety books you read. Somehow you need to find someone who's fully accountable for safety in an organization.

Safety has been, for many years, the job of a lot of people. It is very hard to pinpoint who is really accountable. This supervisor does this and that supervisor does that, and things like that. Now we want someone we can go to who we know has full authority, directly from the CEO, to get things done and to make the changes that may be required for having a safer workplace. Now we know who to go to.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Has it been done in any other jurisdiction? Are we unique in trying this approach? Do you have any experience with that?

[Luc Bourdon]

It's pretty much standard for every industry that has adopted the safety management system. I wouldn't say that it's the pillar of the safety management system, but definitely a requirement is that you need to have an accountable executive.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

What other industries currently have this?

[Luc Bourdon]

I think civil aviation has it.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Okay. So this isn't as unique an idea as it's been presented to me.

[Luc Bourdon]

No, no.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

One of the other questions that will come with the next witness, as has been pointed out, is the question of whether all rail traffic control of Canadian rail should be located in Canada. It has been noted that there may be a company moving to Chicago, or things like that. Has the department looked at the impact that may or may not have on safety for Canada?

[Luc Bourdon]

It was a recommendation of the RSA review panel. It was recommendation 45, if I remember, which asked us to keep the RTC offices located in Canada. At the time, when we looked at it, obviously we consulted with Justice. We were kind of told that we would be in breach of GATS, the General Agreement on Trade in Services, and NAFTA if we restricted the operation of RTC offices in Canada. In the States they've used security reasons, instead, to keep the RTC offices in the States.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'll have to stop it there, Mr. Trost.

We have a few minutes left, so I'm just going give a one-minute round to everybody, and then we'll invite our new witnesses to appear.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you have one minute.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

I would carry on with Mr. Trost's question. The review of the RSA recommended that the rail traffic controllers be required to be physically in Canada so they can be inspected. Would you like to see that provision in Bill C-33?

[Luc Bourdon]

If we look at it from strictly a safety point of view, if they are located elsewhere, we already have an agreement with the FRA allowing us to go and audit and do some inspections. I think the minister mentioned on Tuesday that he'd be open to considering this. But from the advice we received, we couldn't do it. That's what we were told.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Under proposed subsection 47.2(2), the federal crown corporations and provinces are exempted from monetary penalties. Does that apply to the provincial crown corporations as well, or should it?

[Luc Bourdon]

That, I don't know. On crown corporations, I don't have an answer for you. If you take a company like VIA Rail, they'd be subject to it for sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

We've had testimony with aviation SMS on whistleblower protection that internally is not adequate. Now we have another bill that gives the whistleblower information to the company. Is that correct?

[Luc Bourdon]

Yes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

What we've seen with aviation from the testimony we got is that this is not effective. So why are we continuing this practice with this amendment?

[Luc Bourdon]

I think it was a suggestion from the panel. We looked at the philosophy of SMS, and we saw that with more openness and a better safety culture it could happen. If it's not happening, then they would not be in compliance with the act and we could take action.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'll have to end it there. Thank you.

Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

If it's a security issue for the U.S., why couldn't it be a security issue here?

[Luc Bourdon]

I'm not an expert in security, so I can't give you the answer.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Could you get Justice to forward their opinion and table it for us?

[Luc Bourdon]

We could look into it, but security is not under my mandate.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

We'll follow up, then.

Mr. Jean?