Transport Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much.

I just want to welcome our guests and let you know that I'm a little bit new to this committee.

I want to know exactly what you're doing differently that will make it safer for Canadians to fly. From that, what are you auditing that's different that will improve safety for Canadians?

[Marc Grégoire]

What we did before was strictly look at how a company was or was not meeting the regulations. If they didn't meet some regulations, we would give them fines or time to make corrections so that they would meet them. That, in a nutshell, is what we used to do before.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

So this is a strategic change in your approach.

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, but we started that change many years ago. The regulations for large air carriers were implemented in 2005. Now all major carriers are under the new regulations. That means that when we go into a company now, not only do we look to see if they meet the regulations, but we measure the safety culture within a company. We look at how they assess their risk. What mechanism do they use to assess their risk? How do they implement changes? In a nutshell, this is what we do.

As I said before, we make sure that they have a non-punitive reporting system. We have to do interviews with many employees and managers in the company, which we never did before. We just looked at files and inspected a few components. We're going more deeply now.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Are you looking at data collection or outcomes?

[Marc Grégoire]

We're looking at both. Actually, analysis of data will help us focus our inspection activities.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

We've agreed with SMS in the past, but we also acknowledge that there has to be proper oversight. Do you feel you have the proper number of inspectors in place?

[Marc Grégoire]

Well, once we get to full staff.... We still have some vacancies. We feel we have what we need now, given the comment that I made earlier today, which was that we believe we need more than what is in the A-base budget for civil aviation, but the department has given us this additional amount over the last seven or eight years now.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

What's the timeline for implementation to get it up to the level you need to be at?

[Marc Grégoire]

Our original timeline was 2015. This is still the advertised date, but we want to iron out all the difficulties before we progress. For instance, we have now delayed implementing SMS for at least a year in certain areas, such as the smaller carriers. For now, SMS is a regulation for large carriers--that is, those using aircraft carrying more than 20 passengers--airports, and the air navigation system.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

What differences do you expect between the large and the small carriers?

[Marc Grégoire]

With the small carriers, first of all, it's the number. While we have a limited number of large air carriers, we have a very large number of smaller carriers. For smaller carriers we have to clarify, as your colleague mentioned before, and we have to tailor the SMS regulation to the size of the carrier.

We also want to provide the appropriate tools to our inspectors before we make the transition.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

As a result of the new system, do you foresee an increase in reports of safety issues from companies?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, this is what we foresee. It is certainly what we hope, because this is what will help in being more proactive about improving safety.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

The new system is non-punitive. That's agreed, so what retribution is there should a company not comply?

[Marc Grégoire]

We can suspend their certificate, for one thing. If a company does not comply with SMS, we have a number of enforcement tools. The harsher one is to suspend their certificate.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

For me, the bottom line is really whether the new SMS system will make flying safer for Canadians. Can you give us your assurances?

[Marc Grégoire]

The short answer is that the only reason we're implementing SMS is to save lives and improve safety.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Ms. Crombie.

Go ahead, Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There are a couple of things I want to clarify. First of all, my understanding is that ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, speaks for the aviation industry in the world. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, that is correct. There are 190 member states.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

As an international body, do they endorse SMS as the way forward for the aviation sector?

[Marc Grégoire]

Not only do they endorse it, they actually impose it on their member states. All member states must implement SMS now; they must all have started the process in 2009. We are, of course, more advanced than the vast majority, but all member states must implement SMS for international operations.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact I've read somewhere, although I'm not sure where, that Transport Canada is actually the world leader on the implementation of SMS, and that ICAO looks at it as setting the bar for other countries to follow. Is that correct?

[Marc Grégoire]

I think we are among the leaders now. Other countries--Singapore and Hong Kong, for instance--have implemented SMS as of now; other countries are starting the process and are not as advanced, but we are a member of an international group of leaders helping others to move on faster.