Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
You know, this is an ongoing investigation. When we report on the Sikorsky S-92--
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
I'm not talking about the investigation; I'm talking about the policy, the voluntary compliance policy with an extension of a year when a particular mechanical situation has already indicated problems in other areas. Do you think it's a wise policy that allows that to happen?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
The issue of the policy is something that is supposed to be--
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Policy is what we do. We do policy. We're into policy. That's what this committee is about. We're trying to find from you answers that will guide us in instructing Transport Canada on how their policy should reflect safety concerns.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Mr. Bevington's time is up, but I'll ask you to respond to the question.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
What I can tell you, Mr. Chairman, and for the whole committee, is that when we discovered the broken studs in Cougar 491, we reported that to the world's regulatory authorities and to the people who could make a change, and there was swift action. Whenever we discover a safety issue in an ongoing investigation, we report it immediately.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Even though we're discussing the aviation sector primarily, I'd like to talk a little bit about rail safety, simply because I live on the main line of the CPR. Your statement here says the weight and length of trains has increased by 25% in the last 15 years. We know in our community of Salmon Arm that has affected the wait times or the meet times. I believe there are some safety issues connected to that, because people get impatient, and they know they're going to be waiting for a significant length of time.
When the rail industry applies to increase the length of these trains, do you have an opportunity to have input on what some of the safety implications of lengthening these trains would be and to ensure that those initiatives will enhance safety rather than making the crossings less safe?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
No, sir. We're an investigative body, so we investigate following an accident. I'm not sure there's an application to increase the length of trains. This really is a matter for a safety management system. When you change your operations, it is crucial in a safety management system that you do a risk assessment and assess the risk of the change in operating practice. I think the increase in the length and weight of trains would be something that should be going into an analysis under the railway safety management system on a regular basis.
Conservative
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We're not a regulatory body; we're an independent expert investigative body.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay.
You talked about the fact that Canada was shown to have more than twice as many runway overruns in wet conditions as the rest of the world has. You didn't give any reason for our having twice the rate. Is it the material that's being used on the runway? Is it weather-related? Do we get more weather conditions that make it more challenging to land on the runways? What is the reasoning for that?
Director of Investigations, Air, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
The majority of those are due to the weather conditions in Canada: snow, slush, ice, and rain on the runway.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
So really, you can't do anything about that. You made a statement here, and it's almost like you jumped up and said something's wrong here, but then it's just the weather. We get more of those types of weather conditions on the runway. You're comparing us to the rest of the world, and I really think your standard is not necessarily fair to the--
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
It's really a question of how you assure the safety of the passengers when those aircraft do overrun. As we know, year after year, in Canada and worldwide, you have a certain number of overruns. You can put measures in place that have to do with crew training and various measures to help cut down the number of overruns, but there will always be a certain number of overruns. That's why we have this issue on our watchlist. That's why we're recommending that Canada move to the international standard in terms of runway and safety areas, and when we don't have the geography to allow for this, that we have an engineered material arresting system.
So it's a question of having another layer or another defence in the system for when these aircraft do overrun.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
Our minister has supported your efforts to make Canadians safer, I feel, and the announcements around monitoring corporate and business operators are just one. Do you have any other examples of some initiatives we've taken in the last two or three years that have helped to improve safety for Canadians, especially in the aviation sector?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I'll start out, and then maybe Mr. Clitsome wants to contribute as well.
We're very pleased with the initial response to the watchlist, and time will tell. Because this was an initiative that we made public, in due time we will be reporting back on the progress on that watchlist. We have had very good initial meetings with officials at Transport Canada, and I'm optimistic.
Is there anything you want to add?
Director of Investigations, Air, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We've made a number of recommendations over the years to Transport Canada on various issues, issues involving crew resource management training, training for crews on bounced landings, training for crews on vertical guidance slope information, and Transport Canada, in the majority of those cases, has agreed there is a safety issue there and is taking action.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Another area.... The reason I bring this up is because I did have a meeting with the B.C. Trucking Association, and their number one concern as far as safety goes is the monitoring of long-haul truck drivers and the number of hours they drive. Is that a concern that you've had or have looked at as far as the trucking sector is concerned?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We don't have a legislative mandate to investigate trucking accidents. That was ceded to the provinces a number of years ago. So anything to do with road accidents, whether they be automobiles or trucks, is a matter for the provinces.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you.
Can I just ask for clarification? When we talk about fatigue, pilot fatigue, your role is to determine if pilot fatigue played a part in it, but not really to regulate it. You can't follow that person around every day to find out whether he's resting properly or not. It's based on probably their good judgment. Is that...?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We would look at a particular crew, in a particular accident, to see if fatigue played a role. The monitoring and any kind of enforcement is not our role.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
That's not your role.
I think that's maybe a bit of the challenge that we're having there. I think the perception might be that you make the rules as well. You just actually investigate the rules that exist and make suggestions.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
That's correct. This is the model that's followed in a number of developed countries in the world, where you have a separation between the regulator who does that kind of thing and the independent accident investigation body, because in most of our investigations we need to look at the role of the regulator.