Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I think the small operators, just as in the marine world, are going to have to have the tools they need, and a number of tools have been developed, for instance, by ICAO for the implementation of safety management systems in the smaller operators.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Oversight, then, by Transport Canada becomes even more important to ensure there's compliance within the small operators. Wouldn't you agree that the responsibility still remains with Transport Canada for that oversight, regardless of the SMS systems that are put in place for the small operators?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Yes, safety management systems are premised on oversight. I would agree with you that oversight of small operators when they are transitioning to safety management systems is crucial.
Conservative
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Mr. Chair, in the last meeting, when we talked about the point of privilege, I brought up the point that we had to be very careful about what we discussed in terms of in camera meetings. What I heard today suggests that there were some details of that in camera meeting that were revealed in the conversation we had today. I'd like you to review the records to determine whether, when we talked in camera about a motion to move out of camera and identified who brought forward that motion, it was somewhat similar to the problems we've had with this whole question of confidentiality.
I would say, and it's the point I want to make here, that these issues are difficult. We have to be cognizant of the difficulties of maintaining confidentiality when we have minutes that come forward and we have things that happen around that. That's why I accepted the apology of Mr. Kennedy. I could see quite clearly that we were having trouble ourselves dealing with the confidentiality issues coming out of in camera sessions. I would point directly to the conversation that took place in this meeting today.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I will review the Hansard and get back to the committee.
Go ahead, Mr. Jean.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to get back to the issue Mr. Volpe brought forward, which is the runway end safety area. I see here, and I want to be clear on this, that a runway safety area is defined as “the surface surrounding the runway prepared or suitable for reducing the risk of damage to airplanes in the event of an undershoot, overshoot, or excursion from the runway”. Is that correct terminology? Is that what it is?
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
We have code 4 runways in Canada, and they are required to be at least 240 metres in length. Is that also correct?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Do you mean a code 4 runway or the runway end safety area of the code 4 runway?
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
My understanding is that it's the runway end safety area, the entire runway. Is that correct, that it is 240 metres long? You recommended to Transport Canada that it actually add an additional 60 metres, I believe.
Currently there are 60 airports operating in Canada, with some 102 code 4 runways operating at the current length of 240 metres. And I think they've been running with these 240 metre runways since early 1993 or even earlier.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
What we're recommending, following the Air France accident, is that Canada move to the recommended international standard of 300 metres.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
The ICAO standard I think was upgraded in 2006. It was recommended at that time that an additional 90 metres be added, actually, not 60. You've recommended 60. That is my understanding. The United States currently is at 300 metres, approximately, or 1,000 feet, so it is 330 metres, probably, or somewhere around there.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
The United States has moved to the recommended international standard. That's correct.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
My question is in relation to this. My understanding, as a new pilot, is that what often happens in an overshoot is that the touchdown point is far past the point where they're supposed to touch down. In fact, as a new pilot, I know that I have to do overshoots sometimes, and I land in the middle of a runway, and obviously I can't do that, because I don't have enough time to stop. Isn't it true that most overshoots, in fact all overshoots, are a result of the touchdown point being too far down the runway for a plane to brake safely or stop safely?
Director of Investigations, Air, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
It is not all cases, but in the majority of cases that would make sense.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Has the TSB done a risk analysis on the runway itself being 240 metres compared to 300 metres? I'm just curious as to whether TSB has hired any experts to do a risk analysis. I know that ICAO has a working group that is doing a risk analysis. That was going to be my next question. I was just wondering whether the TSB has done an analysis or a risk assessment or whether it has hired an expert to do it and provide that data to you.
Director of Investigations, Air, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
No, but there have been dozens of studies done around the world by a number of organizations, a number of governments, and a number of investigative agencies. They have made recommendations to ICAO on the length of runway end safety areas.
Conservative
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Also, has the ICAO study been done yet? Has the working group come to any conclusions on their study they've been working on in relation to the runway length? My understanding is that it's not finished yet.