Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transport.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Fifteen years. And how many fatalities have there been?
Director of Investigations, Air, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I don't have that number handy.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
You also mentioned in your report that it takes political resolve to fix problems. Do you feel we have that political resolve to protect aviation safety and other transport safety issues in Canada?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I was speaking specifically about runway end safety areas.
In terms of the issues generally, we've seen a very strong response from Transport Canada on the watchlist, and I'm hopeful about that. For almost all of these issues, we are in agreement about the safety issue, but it's taken too long.
But I was speaking specifically about runway end safety areas. I think this is a difficult issue to tackle. One of the things we are open to is a risk assessment to determine which runways pose the greatest risk in Canada and then you put the resources towards the runways that pose the greatest risk.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
You also say that we must get on with it, so I ask you, why aren't we? What's preventing us from getting on with it?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
In general, I think what's preventing it is what Mr. Clitsome just spoke about, and you heard the response in terms of 15 years. That process is just way too slow. It just goes into too many black holes.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
There do seem to be a lot of black holes.
You talk about the need for objective data from the on-board recorders, and you've described it as being a patchwork of requirements and you've said that it's no longer acceptable. So what recommendation would you make to fix that? I know you need hard data from the recorders, but often this isn't recoverable and isn't available. So how do you compensate for that? How can this be changed?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
If we look at the watchlist, we have it set up in a problem and solution format, and you'll see the solutions we are suggesting in terms of the data.
Just to show you this briefly, in the marine sector, voyage data recorders are required for international voyages. They are not legally required for domestic voyages, although some ferry operators have fitted their ships with SVDRs, simplified voyage data recorders
In the rail sector, we see a move to have crashworthy and fire-resistant recorders, but not for existing locomotives. They're only going to be fitted on new locomotives. As you probably know, locomotives last an awfully long time, so we're looking at 15 to 20 years out before the fleet is fitted with something that was recommended some time ago.
What happens in this area is that it's technology-driven, and by the time the industry takes up these measures and incorporates something they would call a “new measure”, there's already second-, third-, fourth-generation technology available that's much better. So there's this lag, and we don't always have the best data. In rail, for instance, we don't have voice recorders.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming today.
First of all, you were set up 20 years ago, in 1990. Is that correct?
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
By a Conservative government, no less.
I noticed that in that period of time you had 23 recommendations in 1991; 23 in 1993; 29 in 1994; 21 in 1995; 19 in 2000; and only seven in 2006; six in 2007; and three in 2008.
I also noticed quite a difference in trend in governments in that time, but notwithstanding that.... I just said that for my colleagues across the way.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I want to applaud the member opposite, the parliamentary secretary, for recognizing that when those recommendations came in, the previous governments obviously operated on their basis, so the numbers were reduced. I thank him for recognizing that previous Liberal governments actually did something, contrary to what his government is currently doing. For example, one of the items that could easily be resolved now is the extension of runways.
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I have to say that accidents still occur because there have been Conservative and Liberal governments, Mr. Chairman.
Conservative
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I hope that doesn't come out of my time. However, I do appreciate Mr. Volpe actually pointing out that the Liberals did something while in power.
Over the last few years we have had a very good committee that looks at Canadian safety as a non-partisan issue, to be honest. We work very well together, and I think you've seen some of the changes that have taken place over the last few years.
I want to deal with one particular change in categorization by the Transportation Safety Board, which I think happened in 2009. It was a recent change by the board in 2009 as a result of consultations with this government, in particular me and the minister, as well as the department. Is that correct?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Mr. Jean, those were changes in the way we track the response to our recommendations. There were a number of recommendations put into the dormant category, but not because the safety issue had been addressed. The safety issue being addressed relates to how we rate the response, and right now 67% of the responses to all of our recommendations in the past 20 years have been fully satisfactory.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I understand and appreciate that, but you made a change in categorization and had some interaction with this government in recent years to change the categorization to be more reflective of the actual state of things.
For instance, I would draw your attention towards one in particular. I think it was recommendation A03-01, dealing with thermal acoustic insulation materials. I bring that to your attention because in my study of this particular issue at the Transportation Safety Board I discovered there were a lot of issues identified by TSB that can't be changed by Transport Canada, even though these relate to safety. In particular, they deal with something from an international perspective, either other manufacturers of aircraft or, indeed, other aviation, other countries. Is that fair to say?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Sometimes the requirements need to be harmonized internationally. You're speaking specifically about one of the recommendations that came out of the Swissair investigation.
Sometimes transport can lead the way.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Indeed. There has been a recategorization. From your perspective, would you suggest there has been a renewed interest by this particular government to make sure Canadians are safe but also addresses some of the issues the TSB has brought forward in recent years?
There is a lot of correspondence, and in my opinion some dissatisfaction with previous governments--whatever stripe they may have been--in addressing issues and having an interaction with the TSB.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I think there has been a renewed interest since the issuance of the watchlist.
