Transport Committee on Nov. 21st, 2011

[Michel Labrecque]

Indexing is very simple. Ten years ago, we made a decision about our fares asking our users to contribute. That enabled us to say that everyone was going to make a contribution. The contribution had to consider the CPI, the CPI in relation to transportation, improving services, investment and the impact on ridership.

If the price is too high, you lose clients, which is the same as plain bad news. So we are trying to maintain a progression. Last year, we raised the fares by a little over 3%, 3.25% to be exact. This year, we have a 4% increase. The board will meet to set the new fares.

Let me go back to your question on indexing. When you freeze a fund for five or ten years, the way it was with the gas tax in Montreal, you lose out. Just with the rate of inflation, we might have lost 20 or 25% of the fund.

So we feel that it is always a bad idea to freeze rates just like it is to freeze an excise tax fund. That is why we suggest indexing it. Should that be done every year, on a cyclical basis, with a three or four-year plan to make an adjustment gradually? That can be up to the legislator.

In general, when you freeze a fund for 12 or 15 years, you drive the fund to poverty and that's not a good idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Coderre, the floor is yours.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Labrecque.

It is always a pleasure to have you here with us. We know you are an enthusiast; we can see that.

I want to look at the federal government's position some more, because it is obviously a totally different story at the municipal and provincial levels. The goal is really to work together and develop a national strategy.

I won't even tell you that I live in Montreal North and that I've been longing for a subway for a long time. It is an old debate and we are not going to get into it again.

[Michel Labrecque]

But there will be a bus rapid transit, a BRT.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

We can't wait. Do you think it is going to work?

[Michel Labrecque]

Yes, it is going to work.

There is a BRT coming along.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay. We will be at the opening ceremony to cut the ribbon.

I think your challenge right now is asset maintenance and wanting to develop your services at the same time.

We know that more than 85% of people are going to live in cities by 2025. It is an urban reality. There is finally a development plan underway for the greater Montreal area. We have to fix the urban sprawl situation and whatever it entails.

Let's talk specifically about the role of the federal government, since, clearly, everyone has to respect their jurisdictions. You have talked about dedicated funds. I actually feel we are at the point where we have to talk about dedicated funds, not consolidated funds. Do you agree with me? Should we have an infrastructure fund with a chunk going to public transit? Or do you want to have one fund dedicated to transportation and another to infrastructure? At the moment, we cannot think about infrastructure without thinking about public transit, based on your recommendations.

[Michel Labrecque]

For us, a national policy on the mobility of goods and people corresponds to a general fund, with a portion allocated to public transit.

Let's take the Champlain Bridge, for example. For the sake of the elected officials who are here, I would say that it is a bridge that falls under national, Canadian jurisdiction. It was a toll bridge when it was built. It now has to be rebuilt. We cannot rebuild this bridge without increasing public transit services significantly. It is impossible.

Right now, in the mornings, articulated buses are bumper to bumper, and the bridge is used to full capacity. But if we are going for a modal shift in providing public transit, you have to keep in mind that you are dealing with a national road infrastructure, that you need funding to refurbish it and that you have to leave room for public transit.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Ultimately, the role of the federal government is perhaps to see where the various regions complement each other, without actually taking care of the operations, of course.

[Michel Labrecque]

Yes. That's right.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

But it might be appropriate to play a role in applying new technologies, in the context of innovation or research and development.

So we will have to deal with a problem in particular. Your job is to provide local service. We must absolutely make sure that it is really based on improving the quality of life. I personally believe in the digital city concept. There is the reality of everything being connected. So we have to develop a culture at the same time. People are using public transit more and more, but there are still a lot of cars on the road. It is not car versus bus. We know that.

[Michel Labrecque]

No, no, it is not like that.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

We agree. But other services are needed. People have to be able to say that the issue of traffic congestion is being addressed because you are involved, but some technology will perhaps have to be involved as well. It is not enough to just say: are we going to choose diesel or electricity? You are working on that, correct?

[Michel Labrecque]

Yes.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Wi-Fi, and so on?

[Michel Labrecque]

Precisely. That's a great question. Just before me, we heard from a Swiss guest. There are areas where Canada is at the forefront, but when it comes to public transit and even road transportation, if you travel around the world a bit, even in Southeast Asia, you will see that Canada is lagging behind. We have fallen far behind in NIT, in applying new information technologies to individual and public transportation.

Some Canadian public transit companies have a real-time reading of where their buses are. There is the feedback for clients. There is also meshing, the so-called “cocktail transport” where you drive your car, take public transit, bike for part of the way, walk and get back into your car. How do we make those connections? With new information technologies.

A French researcher said that STM carries 1.2 million nameless people each day; in 10 years, even sooner, we are going to carry 1.2 million iPhones and BlackBerrys.

So we know who's there, but how do we talk to them, how do we make the connection? We are starting to work on that.

In the SOFIL program, financed by the Government of Canada, the iBus project is the beginning of that process. But we are a good ten years behind high-performance European or Asian public transit corporations.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

How is it that Canada—I think we can say mea culpa, since we were also in power—does not have a national public transit strategy?

[Michel Labrecque]

I have no idea, Mr. Coderre. I don't know why.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

You have...

[Michel Labrecque]

I know that in the...

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

...also been on the political side. Does the problem lie with decision-making, or is it a cultural one? I am not talking about partisanship.

[Michel Labrecque]

Well, the fact is that we have a gigantic territory, and the ground transportation of passengers is under provincial jurisdiction, but with national infrastructures. The bridges are the responsibility of the Canadian government.

I am thinking of the Canada Line project that was built between the Vancouver Airport, the Vancouver downtown core, and the city of Richmond for the Vancouver Olympic Games. That was not a decision that emanated strictly from Vancouver. There's a perspective.

As for the competitiveness and attractiveness of businesses in the cities, the Canadian government has not yet understood the importance, over the next 10, 20 or 30 years, of the value-added effect of effective public transit. How do I move my merchandise if there is a bad traffic jam, what we call gridlock?

On the basis of that analysis of future perspectives, can we continue to see a 2% or 3% increase in single occupant vehicle use, solo driving, without having a vision whereby the provinces will do their share, and the cities will also do theirs? Our role in that regard consists in having an impact on the economy and competitiveness of Canada. This hasn't been grasped because it has probably been approached from other angles. When we were dealing with an infrastructure program, we asked ourselves: what is ''shovel ready''? It's an expression.

Clearly, when you are doing maintenance work on infrastructure, you are more willing to repair what you already have. Building a new system takes a long time.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I have one last brief question, Mr. Chairman.

It is true that our subway is old and that we have to replace some of its cars as soon as possible. In your 2020 Strategic Plan, won't some contingencies arise? Won't we have some bad surprises? One can have good plans for the future, but our infrastructures, in the current context... I won't talk to you about the Champlain Bridge, but about your case.

[Michel Labrecque]

No. As for the subway and the bad surprises, the subways of the world are subject to extremely stringent safety rules. The APTA, the American Public Transportation Association, and the UITP, the International Association of Public Transport, perform security audits. We are on scope, on budget, with regard to renewal.

For the tests, the first cars should be ready by 2013, and the first cars for passenger service are expected around 2014. This is crucial for what will follow. In this area, things are going well. We have no concerns about that, but we can't take a maintenance holiday either. We are talking about $150 to $200 million a year, easily.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.