Evidence of meeting #38 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vehicle.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
The total fuel storage on the vehicle depends on how many tanks it has, or if it's conversion, on how much range the customer wants—
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
A pickup truck would probably easily have a 300- to 400-kilometre range. Some might go higher and some might be lower.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Gas Association
That's correct.
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
Regarding fuel consumption, we always talk about the pricing of natural gas on a gasoline litre or diesel litre equivalent. Natural gas and gasoline have very comparable efficiencies in terms of how much fuel is burned in the engine. So if it's 12 litres per 100 kilometres, it would be 12 gasoline litre equivalents per 100 kilometres. There is pretty much parity on the efficiency side, but you need more volume on the vehicle to hold the same amount of energy. That's the difference.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
So what is the size capacity of the fuel tank? You have given me range for driving.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
No. How many litres would it hold? If I have a pickup truck and I have 110 litres for traditional gas, I know it takes two people to install it. I know how that works, coming from the auto industry. Natural gas is new in terms of vehicles, so I'm not familiar with the technology.
Director of Sales, Compression Technology Corporation
Knowing the after-market side, I would say that you're looking at its holding, roughly, anywhere between 20 and 40 litre equivalents of natural gas.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you.
I'll pass the remainder of my time to Monsieur Poilievre, if he has a....
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Ms. Milner, you were talking about gasoline litre equivalents and the difference in volume required. What is the precise difference in price today between a litre of gas and a gasoline litre equivalent in natural gas?
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
At a public refuelling station today, it's about 50¢ a litre. But you should understand that at least 20¢ of that, depending on which province you're in, is a tax difference, because natural gas doesn't have the same level of taxation as gasoline and diesel.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
What is your recommendation on the excise tax?
Before you answer, the excise tax really is meant as a method of financing the infrastructure people drive on. It's almost that people pay for their use of the roads when they're filling their tank and paying that excise tax. If there's no excise tax on natural gas, those folks who have CNG vehicles would be given a free ride, literally, on our public infrastructure.
From a public policy standpoint, what do you think the excise tax should be, and when and why?
President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
I'm going to partly defer to....
We work closely with the Canadian Trucking Alliance, going back to the heavy side of the market here. We very much concur with their view on this, which is that we all understand that this fuel, if we're successful, will attract taxation. It has to; governments need that revenue, both federally and provincially, for infrastructure.
But the reality is that right now, of that 50¢ a litre there is also a cost structure, because this is really an infant industry. We need the benefit to get into the market. We need to get to a certain scale, and in their perspective, at least on the truck side, that's probably about a seven- to ten-year timeframe.
I think a percentage could be set in terms of percentage penetration. Is it at the 10% level, the 5% level? Where is that threshold at which you tax the fuel?
We think this will come. That said, we also think that natural gas, because it is an inherently lower-cost commodity than crude oil, has lots of capacity to carry tax. What we don't want to see, though, is killing this before it gets started.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I have to interrupt. The time is up.
I will thank our guests for being here.
I noticed that in one of your comments you talked about regulation across the nation. We all know how difficult that is. I think that's probably going to be one of the biggest challenges: to try to have a regime that applies across Canada, as opposed to seeing provincial governments set them, because each province already has started to set contents. How do you change it after the fact, and how do you bring everybody up to the same level?
Thank you for your day today. We appreciate it.
Committee members, have a nice break week back in your ridings, and work hard. We'll see you on the Tuesday when you get back.
Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.