Evidence of meeting #45 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
If the decision-making process were much faster than the 6 to 12 months, it would be helpful. That's one of the recommendations I've heard. Everybody's nodding their head. Faster is better than 6 to 12 months.
What do you think would be a reasonable time? The federal government has to do due diligence. Is it one month, five months, six months?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Blueprint Energy Inc.
That requires a very long answer.
Really it should tie into the industry norm, the 30 to 90 days of the capital markets. At that point, there's a litmus test that this is either a go or a no go project. The challenge is that the government has to satisfy its mandate and be responsible with the funds it provides, and that's understood. It's in contrast to the requirement of the commercialization, or the industry, which moves at a faster speed than government. One is not better than the other; there's just a misalignment.
Anything that can draw the process down, or a program that can facilitate earmarked projects, however broadly defined that may or may not be, to fast track, for lack of a better term, into that would be seen as favourable, because it matches the reality that companies need to address commercial problems and challenges in the market and they can't wait to address them. If they do, that window of opportunity may close and foreign competitors may take that opportunity.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
May I ask HD-Petroleum, maybe Todd, have you been able to establish your refinery, and what capacity do you have right now in terms of converting oil to refined diesel fuel per year?
President and Chief Executive Officer, HD-Petroleum Inc.
Certainly. I'll address that question.
If I can first make a correction, Jack reminded me that we are receiving some ongoing IRAP funding for one engineering person. For that we're very grateful. For the record, we have $50,000 IRAP funding for that.
I know Jack may also have a comment that may be complementary to your question.
To answer your question, the full-scale commercialized facility was successfully operated in 2011. The game plan for 2012, to be able to take it to a commercialized product that we can package and market, required a significant engineering effort, of which a portion was essentially that the engineering people had to go inside the interior of the actual refinery to take samples, a chemical metal decomposition analysis, to be able to finalize the engineering process.
We're expecting our commercialized unit to be in production by the end of this December.
President and Chief Executive Officer, HD-Petroleum Inc.
Yes, of this year.
The volume on that is targeted. Our volume is 1,000 litres of output per hour; that's around 7 million to 8 million litres of production per year.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
That's per year, and you have been able to find some private financing. You were looking at a $2 million target by closing date. Have you had some luck in getting some?
President and Chief Executive Officer, HD-Petroleum Inc.
Yes, we've been very successful at that.
Jack has a comment regarding some of the overlap or the timing with funding.
Jack Winram Vice-President, HD-Petroleum Inc.
I can speak from experience about what Greg was talking about and the programs the federal government delivers, and linking those with the speed of business. We went through the process of taking a look at the SDTC program, the Sustainable Development Technology Canada program, and if the evolution of your company does not line up with the windows of application for these programs, you can't apply, because you will miss the windows or you'll be forced to rush an application that doesn't have the proper due diligence with proper agreements with stakeholders.
I just wanted to pass on that we experienced what Greg was talking about first-hand.
Conservative
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. That is very interesting. We have heard about a number of possibilities with regard to new technology. I will be honest with you; what interests me right now is intellectual property and regulations.
A person can have a wonderful idea, but if he does not have the necessary support from Transport Canada, for example, in terms of certain regulations or the fostering of the investment environment, then there is a problem. Our role here is to make recommendations, particularly with regard to regulations. We must ensure that we are a catalyst and not an inhibitor when it comes to technology.
Mr. Habicht, if I understand correctly, you would like smart regulations to be established that would eliminate paperwork and promote a system that operates on a case by case basis. You spoke about a percentage of 96% to 100%, which I found interesting. To reach 100%, we must change sulphur content labelling. Do you also need other partnerships in which the government could play a role or do you have sufficient regulatory measures in place that allow you to be specific?
President and Chief Executive Officer, HD-Petroleum Inc.
The two-part answer is, first, as we stated in our request, when a regulatory body or an act is created, by design, it cannot keep up with the innovation that comes. So our request is that within that there be an opportunity for innovation to come to that regulatory body with a request that says, “The spirit of this act is this. We believe we are meeting it, but we need this to be considered on an individual case basis.”
In terms of transportation and the petroleum industry, the act is very necessary, and it's critical that the traditional diesel fuel and petroleum gasoline that is generated meet the requirements. We support that, and we don't question the value of ultra-low sulphur diesel. However, when we're tackling a global waste management issue of haz-mat, innovation can take time.
HD-Petroleum is not a research and development company. We are a for-profit company that feels we need to get this product to the marketplace as quickly as we can. We do have very encouraging results coming back from some of our next generation testing and innovation for the removal of those last few parts of sulphur. Just so you understand, sulphur gets more difficult to remove the lower you get. The last few percentages take more energy to get out than the first 30%, so as we get to those last few percentage points, it becomes challenging. Some very encouraging results are coming back; however, it will take time. In the meantime, each day that we are not in production in an area that waste motor oil is indiscriminately burned or disposed of in a way that isn't helpful to the environment...we could be providing that 96% solution to northern power generation, northern communities, and areas of the country that simply do not have the population centres for a traditional refinery.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Come to Quebec, too.
Mr. Hughson, we are moving more and more into a digital era. You are talking about all the intelligent systems, including SYNC. Are you satisfied when it comes to intellectual property? This is not just a matter of saying that we will bring Missouri's technology to Canada. You know that Montreal is a digital capital. Many things are also being done in Calgary and other places.
Right now, what is the status of our own regulations? We want to ensure that we can maintain our share of the market and be people who will not only promote but also carry out projects in order to be involved in anything that has to do with intelligent systems in this car.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Invotronics Inc.
I think with some of these advanced systems the technologies are still developing. The automotive industry will fit within the legislation for other wireless telecommunication systems and so on. It must.
The primary thing that Canada needs to do to be successful is to collaborate and harmonize with other jurisdictions, preferably global, and participate in those activities that are taking place now, that are setting standards for these advanced systems, but especially the United States and Mexico. There can be differentials between vehicles for Europe and other countries, but certainly when a vehicle drives into a Canadian city or an American city, it needs to have the same access to the same infrastructure, as these technologies come along.
For example, the vehicle-to-vehicle frequency for DSRC is reserved in the United States for that purpose. I know we've talked to the government about making sure Canada reserves that. For us not to have that frequency available when it's going to be 100% mandated on U.S. vehicles fairly soon would be a huge mistake; we'd just lose all of the benefits, and our companies would lose their credibility for participating in this market.
So harmonization and participation in those processes, especially in North America, are vital.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
What about smart regulations? There are issues with red tape. I remember in the past that we've focused on that being the way government works. It's not only just based on risk management and all that. What about smart regulations as a recommendation?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
You'll maybe get a chance to comment on that.
Mr. Poilievre, you have seven minutes.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Starting with HD-Petroleum, you have a recommendation for a regulatory change. Is that correct?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Do you have it on paper in a way that is exact and succinct?
President and Chief Executive Officer, HD-Petroleum Inc.
It certainly can be provided.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay. We would need that very quickly for it to be considered for the final report. Thank you.
Is anyone else at the table recommending a regulatory change to make it easier for your technologies to reach the marketplace?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Blueprint Energy Inc.
Yes, Mr. Poilievre.
My summary notes do have these five points. One copy was provided and not translated—sorry for that. Policies around investment facilities would allow technologies to be brought to the commercialization stage in an easier manner. It has really to do with the.... Actually, to address Mr. Coderre's point, it's around IP and the facility of commercialization, and the investment culture that needs to be put in place—