Transport Committee on Oct. 5th, 2011

[Paul Bedford]

That's a question probably only you can answer, with the greatest of respect, because I simply don't know.

If you're looking at the transit file, my main point is that it doesn't do much good to provide any kind of a major program over a four- or five-year period and have it end, because you can't build these systems. You can't get them up and running. It's not sustainable.

So for transit, I would suggest there should be an ongoing, dependable source of funding over a 25-year period. That's exactly what we're looking at with Metrolinx, because otherwise you can't do this stuff.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Watson.

Ms. Hughes.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you very much for your presentation. I think the visual aspect of it is something we should all be showing our communities. I think it really hits home. As I indicated, I'm from a rural area, and a lot of the presentation was focused on urban areas. So when it comes to first nations, when it comes to places like Chapleau that can't even get a bus service there, we know that the governments of the day did drop the ball, because the people in these communities are trying to get the services they need. And they can't get them at home, of course, so they try to travel and there aren't a lot of services. Now Chapleau does have the Budd car, but again, the timing is not really that great and it's still problematic, especially in the wintertime.

You mentioned seniors. One of the communities in my riding is Elliott Lake, but whether it's Wawa, or White River, or Manitouwadge, again, there are problems there, because even when there was a bus service, it still wouldn't go in.

So I think certainly the hindsight is that, yes, we have to go down that road. There was downloading that was talked about us well. Let's face it, the downloading onto the municipalities was a result of what the federal government did as well with the lack of transfer payments and the cutbacks in some of the transfer payments at some points.

You said sooner better than later, and we're already way behind. I think we've had the discussions. There have been tons of discussions. There are tons of reports out there. Tony Martin had done a lot of work on rail and other forms of transportation.

Given the timeframe we are in right now and the importance this is going to have because we know the price of gas is high—I'm still confused as to why the price of gas is so high in Europe given the fact that they do have a really good rail transit system there—what would you like to see happen in whatever timeframe? Could you design that for me?

[Paul Bedford]

I know you've had a lot of discussions, and there are probably reports that would go to the ceiling.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Collecting dust.

[Paul Bedford]

I'm sure. What I would love to see within the term of this Parliament is action. I don't want you to be misled when I say we should have discussions and forums. I think because this is another kick at the can, so to speak, and we have different players as a result of the provincial elections that are taking place across the country—and who knows what will happen—and we have new municipality mayors and all the rest of it, we need to be on the same page.

That can happen fairly quickly. The concept of partnership, I guess, is what I really want to get across. All levels have a role to play in this. It has to be an ongoing permanent kind of commitment and it has to work for the small communities as well as the large. I'm going to keep coming back to this because it's something we're focusing on in the Toronto area: the public has a contribution to make in this too, in terms of some of those tools that we're going to have to embrace if we're going to be able to meet the needs of the population. So it's the partnership role.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

And I think it's not just the needs of the population, but it's communities as a whole and the tourism aspect. There are a lot of tourists who come here and can't believe we don't have a rail system as they do in Europe.

I will ask my colleague here to have the final say.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I have a few minutes.

You said that we were behind and that other countries have taken similar action.

I would like you to speak to us about a situation that is similar to Canada's and what was done in that situation. Tell us about the experience of another country that was facing a situation similar to Canada's.

[Paul Bedford]

Well, obviously, the U.S. first, because it's closest to us in terms of what you see in cities like San Francisco and in the Los Angeles example I mentioned, which is the car capital of the world, yet they're building subways galore and the citizens have voted in favour of a sales tax increase to fund the transit there. Atlanta, Seattle...about to happen in November.

For all of these kinds of things, the U.S. federal government, the states, and the municipalities, through a combination of different funding sources and tools, have in fact done reasonably well in many of these cities. Some of them are a disaster area--don't get me wrong--but I think we can look to the ones that have really done some creative stuff.

So that's one.

In terms of Europe, we've talked about it, and most people are pretty familiar with the transit systems there. If you just take London as an example, because it's obviously a huge world city, I can't imagine that place working without all those commuter rail lines, the subway networks, and the bus networks, etc. These aren't luxuries. These are things you must have to make these city regions work.

Even Sydney, Australia--I was there a couple of years ago--in terms of the system they have there and how they fund it.... There are so many examples. Quite frankly, probably the best I've ever seen is in Tokyo, which blows your mind away, because if the train is 30 seconds late, somebody gets fired. It's unbelievable. It's precision. It's just unreal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Albas, for final questions.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate you coming in for the presentation today.

Since we were just speaking about action, I think sometimes it's important for us to just take a step back and look at what things are already in the works. What is your reaction to the government's commitment towards a new long-term infrastructure plan as announced in our budget for 2011?

[Paul Bedford]

I think it's positive. It's a great start, but it's not going to solve this problem.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Do you agree that discussions over transit infrastructure should take place within that context?

[Paul Bedford]

Possibly. I think they should take place in the context of your all-party committee, and you should in fact drill down in terms of recommending a strategy that all parties buy into, frankly, and that serves the needs of Canadians.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Okay.

Recognizing that there have been unprecedented levels of investment towards transit infrastructure from all orders of government in recent years, can you tell us from your perspective what you see as the gaps with respect to transit federally?

[Paul Bedford]

The federal government has come to the table through its infrastructure program and the gas tax, and that's more than welcome, but as I've tried to say here, in terms of the magnitude of the need, of what we have to do across the country, we need a lot more.

I think the work of your committee is going to be very important in terms of pursuing some of those other possible approaches and tools in conjunction with the provinces, the municipalities, and the people of the country.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to having that discussion with all the committee members as we go forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

With that, I'll thank our guests. It was a very interesting presentation and we appreciate your time.

Committee members, we are on a work week back in our constituencies next week, but we will have a calendar of the future representations that will be made before the committee over the next little while.

Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chair, were some of the witnesses on the list I submitted contacted?

What's the status of the list I provided?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Yes, and I've actually highlighted a few more that we will be bringing in after the break.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Seeing no other activity, I'll adjourn this meeting.