Evidence of meeting #54 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bridge.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
—if we cannot ask questions about Kevin Page, I doubt we should ask questions about chickens.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Minister, the NDP is proposing a $21-billion carbon tax. Now, they are also proposing, which they claim is...now they're calling tax increases “clerical errors”. But they are advocating a one-cent increase in taxes. In their party platform, they are also calling for a two-cent increase in the GST.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I can't let that slide. The NDP never advocated for this.
If Mr. Adler wants to continue to put words in people's mouths, it's just not quite correct.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
It's not a point of order. That is on a public document that you presented here, Ms. Chow.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Well, you handed out a public document.
Mr. Adler, you have the floor.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I just wanted to say that if the taxpayer is a chicken, then the NDP is Colonel Sanders.
11:50 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
The NDP is calling for a one-cent increase in taxes, which they claim is a clerical error. Second, it's in their party platform that they want to increase the GST back to 7%. It's not really clear if it's....
Pardon me for speaking while you are trying to interrupt.
So we're not really clear if it's a 7% GST they want or an 8% GST they want, but we do know that they want to propose a $21-billion carbon tax.
How horrible would that be for our economy? What effect would that have on our economic performance incentive? Could you just comment on that?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Denis Lebel Conservative Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you for the question.
For sure, in terms of infrastructure, I have here the paper on which is written:
"The one-cent tax" One per cent sales tax on value-added charged by the municipality...
I was very interested in that increase.
I'm pretty sure that when we leave more money in the population's pocket as well as in municipalities' pocket, they can invest in their own priorities. The impact of creating more taxes for our government will be huge, for us, because that will stop the economy from growing. We're not the best country in the G-7 and probably worldwide in terms of the economy without reasons: it's because we made good choices. We decided to
do some housecleaning
in our own home, at the beginning. That's why we decided to make economies in many of the departments, but we're still supporting the economy of the country through the infrastructure program and other programs.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We are going to stop telling dumb jokes about taxes.
Good morning and thank you for being here today.
I would like to ask you one thing. Consultations are starting this weekend. It has to be said that we would have liked to have this feeling of consultation on other topics such as the effects of the toll you have proposed for this bridge. You also proposed, without too much consultation, to do this as part of a PPP.
I would like to know whether you received any comments from members of the public concerned about what will happen to this bridge which used to be free of charge. Earlier you talked about the impact of money staying in people's pockets. However, this bridge was free of charge, and suddenly it will be a toll bridge. Have you received any comments on that?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Denis Lebel Conservative Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
First, I must say that what is important for people is to have a new bridge. In the current state of the public finances of Canada, the Province of Quebec and the City of Montreal, if there is no public-private partnership project or toll, there will be no bridge.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Denis Lebel Conservative Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
No, they are other PPPs. We will definitely find good public and private partners to invest in a beautiful region such as ours, where a lot of clients use the bridge. We know that.
However, our primary objective concerned the public. I met with a number of mayors in the region; I went to several forums to attend conferences; I was able to meet a lot of people. Some segments of the population are of course concerned about having a user-pay principle. However, people from Trois-Rivières, Sept-Îles, Roberval and Chicoutimi think this is a bridge that is used more by people from the Montreal area. It is not exclusive to them, far from it. Truckers from my region, and from Trois-Rivières and elsewhere, use it to go to the United States or the Maritime provinces as part of their work, to transport goods and materials for the country's economy, for example.
This is the same principle as we put forward for the Detroit River Bridge between Windsor and Detroit. It takes into account the state of the country's public finances. You obviously do not want us to talk about taxes, but you are simply forcing me to do so. You are forcing me to say that there are ideological differences. It is part of your party's DNA to increase direct and indirect taxes so that we can pay for things like that and for others to have them free of charge.
However, we do not work like that. We want there to be a user-pay principle, and that is why we have put forward the process to build a new bridge across the St. Lawrence River.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
What is unfortunate here, Mr. Lebel, is that, although some people have asserted that it is appropriate to install toll booths on Montreal Island bridges, the fact that you have come up with the idea of making this specific bridge a toll bridge virtually undermines the vision we have of eventually funding public transport, as it was presented in the PMAD.
In any case, what is important to me is for you to really listen. So I have a specific question on this. In fact, I have two questions.
First of all, on Monday I was at the marvellous submit organized by Culture Montréal entitled "Montréal, Cultural Metropolis". That summit on arts, heritage and culture in Montreal concluded with a request that we have a signature bridge in Montreal, a bridge that would be a distinctive feature for the city. I would like to hear your comments on that.
I would also like to ask you whether you received the request from the Chambre de commerce et d'industrie de la Rive-Sud, which hopes to see the partnership office for the future Champlain Bridge set up in greater Longueuil, on the South Shore.
Noon
Conservative
Denis Lebel Conservative Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
The structure of the on-site partnership office is the Quebec government's responsibility. Construction of the bridge is entirely the federal government's jurisdiction. The province cannot criticize us for not dealing with the bridge issue for five, six or seven years, then want us to transfer our responsibilities to it. We will be shouldering our responsibilities and assuming them totally.
As for managing the process of establishing the bridge, if we paid for new premises, you would say we were mismanaging the economy. We have magnificent offices near the airport in Montreal. The new St. Lawrence River bridge project will be managed from Transport Canada's offices. They are not overly spacious, but they are big enough to accommodate the team.
We have worked well with the people in the community. The people from the urban community, the mayors of the entire urban community and the Province of Quebec will clearly be choosing the public transit structure they want to have on the new bridge over the St. Lawrence.
From day one, we were told we had not considered public transit. I heard your leader say that a number of times, as well as the FCM, but it is completely false.
Noon
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
But I was not talking to you about public transit, Mr. Lebel.
Noon
Conservative
Denis Lebel Conservative Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
But I want to talk to you about it.
That is completely false. We told the Province of Quebec to decide what type of public transit it wanted, whether it be light rail or anything else, and that we would put it on the bridge.
That is in addition to the architecture issue. We will pay for what we are able to pay for. I can do a $15-billion bridge. However, if the toll is three times higher than what people thought, I am going to say it is the fault of Mr. Nantel, who asked me to build a work of art instead of a bridge.