Thank you. Through the chair, the United Kingdom's a crystal clear example of what the lack of transparency or open discussion at the front end can lead to. When you build a hospital and you can't afford to run it, whether you're a provincial government or a U.K. government, the only way to reduce costs in a hospital is to close wards and close beds. Most of the private finance initiative hospitals in the United Kingdom are operating with less than 60% of the space in the hospital being used because they can't afford to run them.
You must make the leasing payments to the consortium and there's no money left to run the health-care system. When a Conservative health minister says they're on the brink of financial collapse, and they're not entering into any more arrangements of the kind that were entered into 10 to 15 years ago, there's a lesson to be learned there.
One of the witnesses before the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates—I can't say his last name—Matti Siemiatycki, a professor from the University of Toronto, told your committee that this is a bit of an accounting mirage. There's so much evidence since 2008 around the world that if people tell you it's too complicated for you to understand, that's when you should be asking more questions.