Evidence of meeting #11 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spill.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
I'll donate it to Mr. Sullivan.
Thank you very much, Mr. Lachance.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
He'll get another round?
Then I'll take this. Sorry.
Can you give us some examples of spills over the past few years, and tell us what happened and how the situation was handled?
10:15 a.m.
Acting Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Spills happen more with regular ships than with oil tankers. A spill may happen during a transfer of oil from one tank to another. A valve may also malfunction and cause a spill. We call those operational spills. That is the kind of spill we are dealing with most of the time.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Okay.
Under the new system, will companies send their prevention mechanism to Transport Canada so that the department can check what has been implemented, or will Transport Canada employees go on site to inspect the facilities?
10:15 a.m.
Acting Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport
The current system has been in place for about 25 years. This bill aims to increase monitoring powers and ensure better oversight of facilities that receive oil products and load them onto ships. We are working with those interfaces. Our system's current value could be improved. That is what the bill proposes. We are trying to get a better view and better control of those facilities.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
You talked about training and changes. How much time do you think will be needed to train all those people? What time frame will be established once the bill has been passed?
10:15 a.m.
Acting Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport
We have not been waiting for the bill to be passed to start working on that. Currently, we are hiring people and implementing the system. Of course, we will have to adjust the system to comply with the resulting regulations, which are not yet in place. After the consultation process, the regulations will impose certain operating parameters on us, and we will have to take them into account.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Thank you, sir.
To Mr. Meisner and the other folks on the panel, just as a matter of information, repeatedly today the words “world-class tanker safety system” have been used. Is this some sort of legal term? Is this some sort of international private legal norm, or public norm? What does this mean?
10:20 a.m.
Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport
First and foremost, I'll go back and say that what's before us today in the Marine Liability Act has nothing to do with the tanker safety system.
The world-class tanker safety system is a branding term that we've used to reflect that we want to have the safest system for the transport of oil in the world. We're looking at three pillars: the prevention, the response, and the liability and compensation.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay. So in March 2013, when the government brought this to bear....
It's effectively a slogan, for Canada, right? It's a slogan.
10:20 a.m.
Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport
A slogan, yes, a branding slogan; it's a term for the program we're putting in place.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay. So for Canadians who are hearing it, I just wanted to debunk any possible misinterpretation of it actually having any other implication than a slogan.
I want to go back to a question my colleague from the NDP raised on the economic damages to the tourism and fisheries industries and to private property, but I want to turn now and talk about, and ask you about, for a lot of Canadians, ecological damage.
What do these amendments do with respect to ecological damage?
10:20 a.m.
Manager, International Marine Policy and Liability, Department of Transport
It's very similar to the system that exists right now for oil pollution. Environmental damages are covered under this regime insofar as it involves restoration that is actually undertaken. That would also include the need to do any post-spill studies, as we call them, to determine whether or not restoration activities need to be undertaken to restore the environment quicker.
In terms of the principles around the regime, there is a legal framework around this that means there has to be a direct link between the actual losses, the costs, and the actual incident. You have to be able to prove that you've suffered a loss or you've undertaken a cost that is directly linked to the actual incident, to the pollution.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
How does that causality apply to an ecosystem along the coast of British Columbia? If an individual can prove no direct pecuniary damage to their property or their person, how does this deal with ecosystem services on the west coast?
10:20 a.m.
Manager, International Marine Policy and Liability, Department of Transport
Again, there already exists about 40 years of claims experience with the IOPC fund in terms of being able to...and there are claims manuals and criteria set out by the international body that governs the fund.
If we're talking about the HNS fund, which doesn't exist yet but would exist in future if it came into force, there would be an assembly of member states that would then, based on the tenets set out in the convention, come up with claims criteria—
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Let's be practical for a second—I had to cut you off just because of the time—and let's say there is a spill of a particularly noxious chemical on the west coast of Canada. Let's say there is a lot of damage to the coastline or to an island. Who is responsible for that ecological damage, and what remedies are open to Canada to pursue those responsible for the spill, for that ecological damage?
10:20 a.m.
Manager, International Marine Policy and Liability, Department of Transport
It's important to distinguish between civil and criminal liability. Here we're talking about civil liability. The shipowner is the party that's first and foremost liable under the system.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
10:20 a.m.
Manager, International Marine Policy and Liability, Department of Transport
Whoever has suffered the damage.
10:20 a.m.
Manager, International Marine Policy and Liability, Department of Transport
If it's private property, yes.
