Transport Committee on June 10th, 2014

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Is anybody able to tell us what happened? It was widely reported in The Globe and Mail and in the Financial Times.

[Capt Craig Blandford]

I'm not aware of the intimate details of the discussions between the CEO and Captain Strachan at the time. I do know it was related to an employee-employer relationship with respect to things you say about your employer and that could damage the employer.

Otherwise I don't know the details, sir. I apologize.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Do you know what the outcome of this dispute was between these two parties?

[Capt Craig Blandford]

I can't comment on that, either.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

You don't know?

[Capt Craig Blandford]

No.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

You don't know.

So clearly there are limitations to a “voluntary, open, and non-punitive reporting system”.

[Capt Craig Blandford]

I think it's important that our chair of our flight safety division, sir, expressed that what we're talking about when we're talk about an open—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I understand what you mean by internally, but I just want to get on the record that there are limitations. There are limitations for a union chief who speaks openly about his concerns about safety at Air Canada.

I want to move on if I can. You rightly point out, Mr. Blandford, in your deck, that the Auditor General's report from 2012 found that Transport Canada was not sufficiently managing risks in civil aviation. You then go on to tell the Canadian public today that Transport Canada after 18 months still has no standards on pilot fatigue. You say that the United States and the European Union have already done so. Then you go on to say that Transport Canada's oversight of SMS does not meet international standards, and that the international standards require that the Government of Canada set acceptable levels of safety, and that Transport Canada and the Conservatives allow air operators to determine their own acceptable levels of safety. Then you say that internationally, operators must have specific safety performance indicators, target values. Transport Canada under the Conservatives does not have that, either. Then you say, internationally they're supposed to have audits and inspections at least once every 12 months. Transport Canada under the Conservatives assess once every 36 months.

We have a pretty big problem here with one of the three legs on the stool of SMS, don't we?

[Capt Craig Blandford]

I would argue that the sky is not falling, SMS is not broken, and I don't think there's a big flaw in the system. I think what this committee is doing is taking a pause and taking a look as the house is being constructed; and before we put the drywall on, we're looking to see if we should modify a room or two. I think that's a very smart thing to do.

So there are some issues and we get our standards from ICAO. So when we defer back to anything, we always ask what is the international standard that we're trying to shoot for. All I'm pointing out is that yes, we don't always meet the ICAO international standards, goals, and objectives.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

And that's okay?

[Capt Craig Blandford]

Not always, sir, no....

From time to time, I think Canadians should be leaders and we should make our own standards and set our own goals and objectives, and we don't always have to follow things that are set by other folks. But in the international world there are some standards that we try to achieve, and I just wanted to point out that those are some of the things we should be shooting for.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So let me ask you this. How many direct and unannounced inspections by qualified Transport Canada inspectors have been conducted in the past, say, five years?

[Capt Ed Bunoza]

We don't have access to that information—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

You don't know that?

[Capt Ed Bunoza]

No. There have been two SMS audits, one in 2009 and I believe they completed one last year.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So you don't know anything about direct and unannounced inspections?

[Capt Ed Bunoza]

No. We don't have access to that information.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Does anybody at this table know about direct and unannounced inspections? The representative of the airline companies, the representative of the pilots, another group that represents the pilots, you don't know anything about direct and unannounced inspections?

[John McKenna]

Specifically, no. We know these things are carried out.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

You do?

How many are there, because we had union testimony here last week telling us there has not been a single direct and unannounced inspection in the last five years.

[John McKenna]

Well, I would contest that.

All I'm saying is that although there are regulated, scheduled inspections varying from one to three years, depending on the risk assessment of each company, unannounced inspections occur whenever Transport Canada decides they are needed.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. McKenna, can you undertake for this committee to go to your members, get the data on how many direct and unannounced inspections have occurred with all your member companies, and table it here within, say, two weeks? Can you commit to the committee to do so?

[John McKenna]

I will commit to ask them. I don't think I will report back to you within two weeks, considering that we have about 180 members.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

How about a month?