Transport Committee on Nov. 27th, 2014

[Mario Pelletier]

Once again, we were in constant communication with the owner. He has always maintained that he meant to leave, but that was not happening. When he was ready to go last year, it was too late, and the St. Lawrence Seaway Management Corporation did not allow him to transit the seaway.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I will repeat my question. What needs to be changed? What powers need to be granted so that this process would take less than four years next time? Your department told me that you had discussions with the owner, but that he has been dithering, which is why this took four years. I personally find that insufficient, and so do my constituents.

Representatives of a school from my riding came to see me and decided to sign petitions because people were worried about water quality in Lake Saint-Louis, close to Lachine. Those people were worried. I don't understand why you haven't done anything in four years.

I find it shocking that you are saying you had discussions with the owner, but that since he was not making any progress, you weren't making any progress, either. That is what you are telling me. It took four years to deal with a vessel located in a lake that flows into the St. Lawrence and is a water source for 80% of Quebeckers.

[Mario Pelletier]

I said that there have been discussions with the owner. I also said that risk assessments had been done and no risk of a spill was identified.

In terms of the vessel docking there or somewhere else, that is not our jurisdiction.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Whose jurisdiction is it exactly?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time is up.

Just finish your response, Mr. Pelletier or Mr. Lachance.

[Sylvain Lachance]

As my colleague Mr. Pelletier mentioned, the vessel did not pose a risk. It was docked in a safe place.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Who exactly is responsible for having it dock there?

[Sylvain Lachance]

A private company brought it there. If there had been a risk, something would have been done.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

The company did not have the City's permission. Who is responsible for that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Ms. Morin, just let him answer. You've asked a number—

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

But I didn't receive an answer to my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well, I did hear Mr. Pelletier say that it was assessed that there was no risk involved. So if that isn't answering your question—

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

My last question was this. Maybe I will translate it myself. How can they get the licence to go there? Who is responsible for giving them the licence to let the boat be there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Can anybody answer that briefly?

[Sylvain Lachance]

I'm not sure. If you're meeting all the regulatory requirements and there's no risk, you don't require a licence to go to a wharf somewhere.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Pelletier, you obviously have had some experience on ships. I don't know the details of the ship Ms. Morin is referring to, but almost every ship I've ever seen, unless it's brand new or has just been freshly painted, has rust on it. Is it fair to say that when they dock, if they rub the dock or whatever and scar the paint, it's going to rust? Ocean-going ships are even worse for rust. Some of them don't look very good when you first see them but, from a safety standpoint, there's nothing wrong with them. Is that a fair statement?

[Mario Pelletier]

It is a fair statement, yes. If it's not maintained, rust will appear. Quite often it's surface rust, so it's not that worrying if it doesn't look good. But there's a huge safety margin in ship steel as well. They don't allow more than a certain wastage, and on this side I would have to turn to Transport.

[Sylvain Lachance]

You made a fair statement. To go through a half-inch plate will take quite some time. If the ship doesn't move, of course there's less risk.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you for clarifying that.

Mr. Yurdiga, you have five minutes.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Department of Transport, the Pacific Pilotage Authority, and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans for presenting and taking our questions today.

Mr. Lachance, the TSB added marine SMS to its watch list, which identifies transportation safety issues that posed the greatest risk to Canadians in 2012. The TSB recommends that Transport Canada require all commercial vessels to have SMS and that all SMS be certified and audited.

I understand Transport Canada has delegated part of its statutory inspection and certification functions for domestic marine vessel operators to four classification societies. What are the respective roles of Transport Canada if a marine vessel is not compliant, and what measures can be taken to ensure they become compliant?

[Sylvain Lachance]

We have a number of measures. One that administration would use is fining a company. We normally call them administrative monetary penalties, or there's suspension of certificates. There's quite an array of measures we can take for enforcement purposes.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Who's responsible for enforcement? Obviously we have the classification societies do the inspections, and it goes back to Transport Canada. Once that's been done, who carries out the orders to get the systems fixed or adjusted?

[Sylvain Lachance]

The classification societies are delegated by the minister to conduct inspections, and so on. They will deliver certificates to ships on behalf of the Minister of Transport. In conducting their inspection and work, if they determine they cannot deliver a certificate, then the certificate will not be delivered. The ship cannot sail without a certificate. That could be a very costly undertaking for a shipping company.

Having said that, we will also conduct risk-based inspections with Transport inspectors, and if we find deficiencies, we can deliver administrative monetary penalties to the companies.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Our committee has found that the large organizations are capable of implementing and are willing to implement the safety management system. But we see a hesitation from the smaller vessels. They say it's very costly and they don't have the ability to create their own.