Transport Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

As you know, we reimburse provinces or municipalities when we receive the bill. That's the way we have always worked at Transport, at Infrastructure. That's the way it works at any department, and the numbers change depending on the projects coming forward, because we know from municipalities or provinces they will send us these projects in that year.

Now I will ask the deputy minister....

[Louis Lévesque]

That is correct. The main estimates for 2014-15 were $3.3 billion and they are $3.633 billion this year.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

So they're higher this year, or they will be higher this year?

[Louis Lévesque]

Yes, $300 million higher.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay, thank you very much.

If I understand the mechanics of the new Building Canada plan correctly, and I think I do, the projects that are submitted are submitted by municipalities and provinces, driven by those partner levels of government; and should we see an increase in project submissions, then we could revisit the estimates through the supplementary estimates process. Is that not correct?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, you're right.

If we could talk about the gas tax, we have to transfer the year to the provinces. That's close to $2 billion. This year we transferred close to $2 billion to the provinces in July and November. For sure it will be higher in the years to come, but only for the gas tax fund. We transfer this money twice a year.

That's a 10-year plan. What we also have to remember is that it's not a race. They don't have to submit their projects this year, because provinces and territories know exactly what they are doing. They have a 10-year plan, and we will manage the money. The money will overlap for them according to the way they propose their projects. That's the way we're working with them and that's the way we want to continue.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You know, I've been a member of Parliament for six years and I take my committee work seriously. I rarely like to get partisan or political at committee, but given the direction of Mr. McGuinty's questions, like a moth to a flame, I'm drawn to go down that road.

Minister, could you compare the record of our Conservative government on infrastructure since 2006 to the previous Liberal government?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

This graph speaks for itself. It isn't a political graph. It was created by teams of officials. I have several copies here for anyone who wants to consult it. It indicates the aging of Canada's infrastructures. There is nothing to add, sir.

We are referring to an age of infrastructure in Canada in 1980 when it was aging extremely, with a peak in 1994. The infrastructure in Canada was the oldest between 2000 and 2006. That's what the graph is saying, not me. However, we can see what a $75-billion investment will do for the situation. The curve will surely be at the bottom in 1980.

You are absolutely right. The numbers speak for themselves. This isn't partisan. That's what the teams that analyzed the infrastructure said. The teams are made up of entirely independent officials. A picture is worth a thousand words, sir.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Right, and we're seeing the average age of public infrastructure reduced in Canada because our average annual investments in infrastructure as a Conservative government are three times greater than the previous Liberal government's.

I would also like to ask you about the new bridge over the St. Lawrence. Minister, could you explain why this project is so important for the people of Montreal and the people of Canada?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Of course.

It's a very, very important bridge, because it will join all of the eastern part of the country with the U.S.A. A lot of trucks and cars will cross this bridge every day.

It is very important to remember that it's the only place in Canada where the country has three bridges within one province. We are replacing this bridge because the Government of Canada owns it. The Jacques-Cartier Bridge and the Champlain Bridge belong 100% to the Government of Canada, while only half the Honoré-Mercier Bridge does. Our portion of the bridge is almost completely renovated, and the other part belongs to the Government of Quebec. We are doing this work because it's a duty, but also because traffic on these bridges generates economic activity.

We took this work very seriously. On October 5, 2011, we announced a project with an estimated cost of between $3 billion and $5 billion. The call for tenders is under way, and we received the technical part in mid-February. We will receive the financial part by April 1st.

This project includes maintenance of the bridge over 30 years. We did what hadn't been done before. We took care of this corridor, which is extremely important for the economy of all of eastern Canada, the Maritimes and Ontario, since it will provide a direct link with the United States.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you

Coming back to infrastructure for my final question, in 2007, our government established the Building Canada plan, and then in Budget 2013 we announced the new Building Canada plan.

Minister, could you briefly explain how the new Building Canada plan is different from the original Building Canada plan?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

It's different because now the gas tax is permanent. That's a lot of predictability for mayors all across the country. They can plan for 10 years.

We have also added many categories to the gas tax fund

to provide more flexibility

to the city councils and mayors to decide what they want to do with their money from the gas tax fund.

We have added a new part to this infrastructure plan that is the longest in Canada's history. It covers 10 years. It is much larger, increasing from $33 billion to $53 billion. We are going to implement it while balancing the budget and not increasing taxes with a carbon tax, like the one the two parties to my right are proposing.

In balancing the budget and without imposing higher income taxes on the country, we have created the new national infrastructure component for the development of the economy. We didn't have that in the former plan. Now we are working with the province and the territories for the rest of the plan in a good partnership, and we will respect their jurisdictions, which is very, very important to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Sullivan, you have five minutes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

I'll take it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

My apologies, Mr. Sullivan. I moved ahead.

Mr. Yurdiga, you have seven minutes.

I'm sorry. I wasn't looking at the list properly.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It's not a problem. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for taking the time to meet with the committee today. It's very important that we move forward and ensure that our municipalities are stronger as we move forward.

Prior to becoming a member of Parliament in July of 2014, I was the mayor—we call it “reeve”—for Athabasca County, and I saw a significant change from 2006 to 2013 in investment in infrastructure in our communities. We're very thankful and never had the opportunity to thank the government of the day for having the vision that investing money into municipalities is good for our Canadian economy and for all our taxpayers.

We keep hearing from our colleagues opposite who are claiming that they would invest a lot more in infrastructure, but in fact, since 2006 we have made record investments in infrastructure. As you have been a mayor before becoming an MP and a minister, can you share with the committee what the support of Canadian municipalities was before our government and what it is now?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes. What you have said is important. I did my homework and I have the list of former municipal politicians in all caucuses. More than 15% of our caucus are former municipal politicians, and we're still in touch with our former friends in municipalities and provinces. We continue to work with them, as you know.

As I have said, before we launched the new plan, we held 13 round tables all across the country. Only one organization was invited to all 13 round tables, and that was the FCM, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. They were part of the process. They knew exactly what was coming. We continue to work for them.

If you ask a mayor if they want more money for their infrastructure, for sure they will say yes, but we have to balance the budget, as they do in their home cities. It's easy to promise something, but higher taxes on incomes...only for what you see about carbon taxes, $20 billion will be picked from the pockets of the Canadian population. That's not what we want. We want to leave that money in the pockets of the population. They have to pay their municipal taxes too.

We continue to work in partnership with municipalities and provinces and we continue to support them. We have frequent discussions with mayors all across the country. They know it's the most important plan they ever had, and I think the most important thing is that predictability. Now that's in the bill. We have doubled it, the gas tax fund, and now we are indexing it. They know that's very good for them. They know it's there and we will not change it. We will continue to work in partnership with them.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you for that answer.

According to my municipal colleagues, we used to refer to the previous Liberal government as the “dark ages”, because municipalities suffered immensely under Liberal leadership. If we listen to the opposition, municipalities have not received any money from the federal government for their infrastructure this year. Is this information correct?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, it's absolutely wrong. As I said before, we have made two transfers, totalling close to $1.98 billion to the provinces, who are in touch with the municipalities. This money is being transferred this year, but they have to be prepared to spend it.

As I said before, the money is available, but if a municipality wants to do one project in the next 10 years because that's their main project for water, waste water, or transit, they can do that in the sixth year of the program. It's not a race. The money's there for them for 10 years. They have to plan what they want to do. The money is available. We already have transferred this year to all provinces and territories in July and November the money available for municipal projects through the gas tax fund, and that's $2 billion.

We have accepted other projects. I can speak about a transit project in Edmonton. We also have reserved $666 million for an extension of the subway in Toronto. We're working with the provinces and municipalities.

That's false. The money is available, but the municipality has to prepare their projects too. Now the money is available. We'll respect their beat and we will receive their projects when they are ready.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you.

Every city in Canada receives money from the gas tax fund every single year. What type of projects can this money be used on?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The money from the gas tax fund can be used for public transit.

Public transit is accepted in all components of the new Building Canada plan—all components, depending on the province and municipality.

Also accepted are wastewater infrastructure, drinking water, solid waste management, community energy systems, local roads and bridges, capacity-building, highways, local and regional airports, short-line rail, short-sea shipping, disaster mitigation, broadband and connectivity, brownfield redevelopment, culture, tourism, sport, and recreation projects.

We have given them the flexibility they were asking for.

[David Yurdiga, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

On another note, I've had meetings with various mayors, reeves, and councils, and they're really appreciative of the doubling of the gas tax fund. Now they're able to fund projects that they wouldn't have had the opportunity to fund under the old program. I just want to say thank you very much for that. It's much appreciated. Municipalities are stronger today as a result of these policies, so thank you very much.

That's it for my questions.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, perhaps I could add a comment about the excise tax on gasoline.

We are working with the provinces. Some provinces have developed specific criteria that they apply in their municipalities. Quebec, for example, has decided to allocate a maximum of 20% of the available envelope for culture, tourism, and sports and leisure. That is the province's decision.

It's exactly the same in all provinces. We have, for sure, an agreement with all provinces, but after that, some provinces deal with their municipalities differently than some other provinces do.

I just wanted to give the example of Quebec, which had set a 20% maximum. The envelope is completely available, but Quebec wanted mainly to have more money for drinking water, wastewater, roads and so on. So less space was left, but that's the province's decision.

I mentioned earlier that the money was transferred to the provinces in July and in November. The way the money is disbursed by the province to the municipalities remains between the province and the municipalities.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now move to Mr. Sullivan for five minutes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

You already confirmed one of my questions, that $666 million has been set aside for the Sheppard subway project.

Has the City of Toronto approached the federal government about the $800 million cost overrun on the Spadina subway, or has the province approached it on the electrification of the airport rail link? Has either of those requests come to the federal government?