Transport Committee on May 5th, 2015

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Who pays for the signs?

[Bogdan Makuc]

It depends on the program, but generally it can be a cost-shared part of the program. It's an eligible cost.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

There's a challenge we're having because every Canadian has seen one of the 9,850 billboards erected around the country, which we've costed at just under $30 million. We're trying to get a better sense of who pays for this.

Several years ago, the City of Ottawa had to erect all kinds of signs, those vanity blue billboards that we've all seen. I wrote to the mayor of Ottawa and I asked the mayor of Ottawa who paid for those. He wrote me back and he said the City of Ottawa was forced to as a condition of receiving the money for this infrastructure project. They were forced by the federal Conservative government to spend $50,000, just in Ottawa, to put up these billboards.

How does this work in practice for Canadians who frankly find this kind of expenditure obscene when it comes to advertising and billboards? Canadians are asking why they're spending so far, by conservative estimates, $30 million in billboards. How does this work?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Do you want him to answer the question?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Yes, absolutely. We want an answer, sir.

[Jeff Moore]

In some cases, the costs for signage are eligible costs under a project. The recipient would pay for a portion of the cost of that sign, potentially. In other cases we may pay for it ourselves, in my understanding.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay, but always tax dollars?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Let him finish the question.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Always tax dollars...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You're out of time, so let him finish the question.

[Jeff Moore]

It would be under our transfer payment program, if it's an eligible cost under our transfer payment program. The funding for the signs is coming through the transfer payment program, not potentially the entire sign because we're cost-sharing. Some components of the costs of the signage could be also coming from the province, territory, and/or municipality as well, if we're assuming, let's say, a one-third, one-third, one-third cost-share of a project.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Braid, you have five minutes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I like to see economic action plan signs in my riding. I know my constituents appreciate when they see that levels of governments are working together.

There's also—

Are you okay, Mr. McGuinty? Can I get you some water?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'm just choking on the ludicrous nature of that comment.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

With respect to the issue of jobs, when investments in infrastructure are made, jobs are created in the construction industry, in the trades, and in engineering, etc. If I'm not mistaken, is there not a formula that one of you may be aware of, a sort of x investment in infrastructure dollars equals y number of jobs? Are any of you familiar with this formula and what the formula is? Do you know?

[Jeff Moore]

There is a formula used by Statistics Canada. It's a modelling equation they use to determine the number of jobs created based on the level of investment made. I have my pseudo-expert here who might know a little about this.

[Stephanie Tanton]

All I'll add to that is that it's fairly difficult to be able to show with any certainty how many jobs are created from dollars spent on infrastructure. There are some methodologies out there, but my understanding is that how solid those numbers are is fairly difficult to say.

[Jeff Moore]

There are many models out there, but they all have their limitations.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Something does exist at Statistics Canada though?

[Jeff Moore]

Yes, and if a number was created out of that there would be probably two caveats that you would have to put around it.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay.

In terms of the provincial-territorial infrastructure component, PTIC, provinces need to prioritize projects before they come to the federal government. Are some provinces further ahead than others in the country under the PTIC component on the new building Canada plan?

[Jeff Moore]

Yes, I would say that some are more advanced than others, absolutely.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Why is that? Why are some more advanced than others?

[Jeff Moore]

There have been some challenges along the way. We've been in business now for about a year in terms of the new building Canada fund. Some provinces and territories have been through elections, and changes of leadership, and so on. That's created some transition in terms of thinking and prioritization around projects. We've had to wait in some instances to get a clear signal from some of these jurisdictions about what their priorities may be.

The important thing, at the end of the day, is that we have strong partnerships in place with provinces and territories. We do rely on them to communicate their priorities to us. We work at the pace of provinces and territories, and try to respect their thinking and priorities right now.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Great. Thank you.

The issue of increased frequency of flooding has come up. Could you confirm that disaster mitigation is an eligible category under every component of the new building Canada plan? Is that correct?