Transport Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

But as policy people what do you say or recommend around these matters?

[Jeff Moore]

Again, it all comes down to the budget process and what's recommended through the budget process. We basically implement whatever policies are developed that way.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Do you have a policy in-house on asset management, for example? I was a bit surprised by the statement about how “an improved economic situation laid the groundwork for a major turnaround in public infrastructure investment”.

I would think engineers would have a bit of a heart attack at that statement, because I would think someone responsible for asset management says you don't wait for an economic turnaround. Then there may be economists who say exactly the same thing. You don't wait for an economic turnaround in order to maintain your investment in your assets.

Should you have any kind of funding recommendations around asset management? What do you have to say about that?

[Jeff Moore]

I would say in terms of asset management that we need to continue working through the gas tax fund on that. We have an actual category under capacity building, so we would encourage municipalities to continue to take advantage of that capacity-building component given the flexibility it affords municipalities in terms of improving their asset management situation.

We've been using, again, our convening powers of the federal government to bring together provinces, territories, municipal associations, and others to have frank discussions around asset management, explore what are some of the best practices out there, where are some of the challenges, and try to establish a forum where we can actually share those best practices with other municipalities, whether it's through us or through the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, so they have a good understanding of what good asset management practices are and how those can be implemented.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. McGuinty, you have five minutes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Can I go to the question of conditionality before moneys are transferred from the federal government to another order of government to move forward on infrastructure projects?

But first you were asked earlier, Mr. Moore, about jobs. What are you told? What do you require in terms of conditionality from recipients of money on the jobs front? What information are you getting, or are you getting any specific information on job creation?

[Jeff Moore]

What we do is, if we go back to some of our material that we provide to folks, there are certain outcomes we're looking for. A good example would be, let's say, public transit, so a public transit project comes in. What we're looking for is how this project is going to reduce urban congestion, for example.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I hear you on all those. In the five minutes I have I want to talk specifically about employment and jobs. What are you getting from the recipient of the money in terms of metrics, or analysis, or numbers on jobs?

[Jeff Moore]

Do you want to...?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

If the answer is we don't hold out anything specific on jobs, that's okay.

[Jeff Moore]

Yes. There's no conditionality with respect to jobs.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

[Jeff Moore]

We're looking basically at key outcomes like the public transit in terms of congestion, ridership, safety, mobility.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I ask because on March 10 the minister came here to this committee, and in his speech he asserted that quote:

We are committed to having the new bridge for the St. Lawrence in service by 2018 and to having the remainder of the corridor project completed by 2020. The project is expected to create 30,000 jobs....

Many people were skeptical when they heard that. What you have just confirmed is, frankly, the minister is not in a position to assert anything of the kind, because there is no conditionality attached to the funding of that kind of specific project.

I want to go to the second question.

[Jeff Moore]

That's a specific project, though.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Do you have the analysis?

[Jeff Moore]

We're not involved in that project, not me personally.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Right, but the department is.

[Jeff Moore]

The department is, so I can't speak to the jobs with respect to that.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Can you get the analysis to substantiate that 30,000 jobs? Do you have access to that and can you produce it for this committee?

[Jeff Moore]

I'll have to check and see if that can be provided.

The difference between the bridge and these programs is that these are transfer payment programs, so the conditionality for these could be very different from—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Okay.

[Jeff Moore]

—the P3 capital project that's administered by the department.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I want to go the second theme in conditionality, and that is the question of publicity.

Do you ask the provinces or municipalities that are receiving federal funds to advertise the investment made by the federal government in these projects?

[Bogdan Makuc]

Sure. Under the gas tax fund, we work with provinces and municipalities to ensure that there are—not in all cases—potentially signs or other markers that identify there is a contribution from all partners in the project.