Transport Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Jeff Moore]

Yes, it is.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Great.

Finally, when Infrastructure Canada, when the Government of Canada, does participate in a project under the new building Canada plan, could you explain how the reimbursement process to the municipality works?

[Bogdan Makuc]

Sure.

Generally we have an agreement in place before any payments can be made or any reimbursements are made. We always have to have that condition in place. A municipality will go ahead and proceed with the project, construction will occur and take place, and they will submit the appropriate documentation to our organization, Infrastructure Canada. We do some reviews, ensure that we have the appropriate information, and we issue a payment. It's quite a simple process.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

But it's only after work is commenced and specific milestones have been achieved. Is that correct?

[Bogdan Makuc]

Yes, that's the approach.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Depending on the nature and the size of the project or projects across the country, that will determine our level of investment under the estimates process, for example, or the budget process. Is that not correct?

[Bogdan Makuc]

Yes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

So the nature of the projects, the size, the complexity, and how and when municipalities apply will drive the money that is being reimbursed to them.

[Bogdan Makuc]

Yes. We work with and have agreements with the proponents who provide the projects. They tell us what their planned expenditures are. We use that information to then put it into our estimates process so that we can determine the appropriate level of funding needed for the department for the following year.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Fascinating.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Watson, you have five minutes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You presented this committee with information. Is this is your graphic here presented to the committee?

[Jeff Moore]

Yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

For those who aren't able to watch the proceedings today, this is a chart sourced from Infrastructure Canada and the Department of Finance looking at federal spending on provincial, territorial, and municipal infrastructure. It begins in 1990-91 and goes out to 2022-23.

I notice on the left-hand side of the graph, from about 2006 back to 1990, there's not a lot of infrastructure spending there. There's one small spike in about 1995. That is a short federal infrastructure spike when the Liberals were in government.

Then policies came in to devolve airports in 1995 from the federal infrastructure downward, without dollars. I know that the 1990s saw CN privatized. There was a national marine policy in 1995 to divest ports from federal care to regional and local municipalities, again, the dollars not funding them. Perhaps that was to ensure that the federal government wouldn't have to spend. That may have been a policy decision of the Liberals back then, but there's been a very deliberate and different policy approach, if I'm reading the graph appropriately, particularly from 2006 onward, where that trend, both through the building Canada plan and the new building plan beyond, involved massive federal investment, topping in 2022-23, where it's at about $6 billion that year, estimated.

Am I reading that correctly, Mr. Moore?

[Jeff Moore]

Yes.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, so deliberate policy decisions of this government have been decidedly different in terms of tackling infrastructure needs and taking a strong federal responsibility. That's good.

I hope that the graph makes it into any report from this committee, Mr. Chairman.

I know that Mr. McGuinty mentioned something about signage. I do have a picture of one of the gas tax fund's signs. I notice that for Mole Rd./County Rd. 12, bridge reconstruction 104703, the partners are Canada, the Town of Essex, and the Government of Ontario, and it's noted that it's administered by the Association of Municipalities of Ontario.

For anyone who's wondering how their tax dollars were actually put to work, there are four partners who were involved in the gas tax fund. I think that's pretty good transparency for projects. Would you agree, Mr. Moore?

[Jeff Moore]

That definitely identifies the funding partners.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

We have an accountability as well for how the money is spent and that ensures that everyone knows that the gas tax fund has multiple partners even though the project decision might rest with a particular municipality. I think that's a good partnership and a strong partnership, some would say.

We've tracked.... That chart I was looking at, which talks about federal spending. Obviously that's public spending. Do we have a sense of how much private capital we're attracting into public infrastructure? What is the trend line on that? Are we getting more private infrastructure funding as a result of leveraging with public dollars? What does that trend line look like going out to say 2022-23? How can you help us understand what the trend is with that private infrastructure investment?

[Jeff Moore]

We don't have that information but generally speaking we're in the business of funding public infrastructure that's owned or operated by municipalities, provinces, or territories. Interestingly enough, the private sector is an eligible recipient at least under the national infrastructure component and under PTIC as well. So we'll have to wait and see.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

At some point we'll have some historical reference to be able to track the trend.

[Jeff Moore]

At some point, we hope to have some kind of a track record on how we leverage private sector investment and this kind of infrastructure.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Moore, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Sullivan, you have five minutes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you again, Mr. Moore.

The new 10-year building Canada plan has been in existence since sometime in the spring of 2013, by the looks of the little line on the chart here that Mr. Watson was holding up for the cameras.

Can we get the data since that time: what has been applied for, what has been granted, how much was applied for, what was the total value of each of the projects, and whether or not there were P3s?

[Jeff Moore]

That should be fairly easy to do.