Transport Committee on Sept. 26th, 2018

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here.

Ms. MacVicar, we hear the term “risk management” quite a bit. Some people will get the sense that you're weighing things, maybe taking shortcuts, maybe trying to prioritize what you pay attention to versus what you think is okay, and using the law of averages to say that you're going to catch what you should catch and let go what you should let go. Is that a fair assessment of risk management, from your view?

[Rosyln MacVicar]

What I would say.... I might word it slightly differently to keep it in straightforward terms. We target the goods and the people well in advance, before they arrive at the border, so we can prepare ourselves in some way. We stream low-risk travellers, low-risk goods for outside of the.... We deem them low-risk so we need to spend less time on them. We utilize our people and our systems, the tools that we have, to focus on the high risks that we see. So that's what the risk management process is, in its simplest form. We do all of this—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I need a fairly short answer, unfortunately, because I have other questions.

[Rosyln MacVicar]

Okay.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

How hard is it to sneak some drugs into a container and get it through?

[Rosyln MacVicar]

That's a very good question and difficult for me to respond to. People are very creative. They use a variety of means to beat the system.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Well, it's like whack-a-mole. I'm sure they are always trying.

I have a couple of questions for the pilots. In metro Vancouver, with the expansion that will come, we presume, with the Trans Mountain pipeline, there's a lot of concern about the shipment of oil. I'd like two quick answers, please. First, what has been the record with the oil we have been shipping? Second, what else are we shipping that people might not realize on a day-to-day basis that, should it get loose in the water, would be just as difficult to manage?

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

I think we haven't had a spill from a tanker in British Columbia. As far as other products are concerned, Mr. Hardie, there is chemical transportation, such as caustic soda or wax for some of the pulp mills that is liquid bulk. I think that, historically, all the tanker business on the B.C. coast, as far as the pilots are concerned, has been done quite safely and quite regularly.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do you have any sense of how many tankers are heading past the southern tip of Vancouver Island to Cherry Point?

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

I couldn't say offhand. I know it's greater than what we're currently transiting with. I couldn't put a number on it, sorry.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What contribution do you think pilots can make to the oceans protection plan?

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

For the pilots, the oceans protection plan is a gift to British Columbia. When the OPP came out.... The principles of the OPP—improving marine safety, promoting responsible shipping, protecting the environment, strengthening our outreach to first nations—are all key values of pilotage. So the part we play with it, in particular with first nations, is that we've always had first nations pilots and we've always reached out through community visits. We push education, especially—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm thinking more in terms of eyes and ears on the water.

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

With the OPP, we've actively participated in a proactive vessel management initiative, the MAIS program with the Coast Guard, working closely with—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm sorry. I will have to cut you off there. But it's safe to say that you're making a contribution. You're engaged.

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

Absolutely. You can expect that.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The Chamber of Shipping is a customer of a whole string of activities. What is your assessment as to how efficient the current system of getting goods on and off your vessels is today, and where do you see a weakness?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

There are lots of pieces to that. You've heard some of it already today. The perspective that we bring is from the efficiency and productivity of unloading and loading. A lot of that has changed over the last five years. One, we're exporting and importing more cargo and people. Two, the ships are getting larger, as you've heard today, which adds more complexity to managing the actual vessel movements and the loading and unloading process.

Overall, the capacity to export—which is the one I will address right away—is growing. But we're also seeing some of the constraints starting to build, and it's getting more difficult to manage it.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Where are the constraints arising?

[Robert Lewis-Manning]

We largely see it in the export of bulk products. In an earlier session, you referred to the issue of anchorages. That's a palpable one that we're seeing, and it's actually having impacts on coastal communities. It's a high priority for us to help ourselves and help the government develop solutions for that.

There are lots of pieces to that supply chain. It's a terminal issue. It's a pilotage issue. It's a ship movement issue, how they're managed within the port ecosystem. It's all getting more complex and in need of management.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to begin the discussion with the two captains who are with us this afternoon.

Over the last few weeks, I took the time to read the Grégoire report. To better understand that report, I spoke with Captain Arsenault from Trois-Rivières, and with Captain Burgess, who we met with in Niagara just a few days ago.

Although your report on security merits praise and there is no doubt, your detractors draw a connection, which I am not certain is correct, and that is what I would like you to comment on. Some say that pilotage costs in Canada go against economic return and that, if the offer of pilotage services were diversified, we could both maintain the same level of security and maybe reduce costs. Is that true or is it a misconception?

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

It's always a burning question, and to have an opportunity to speak on it is something that we always endeavour to fulfill.

This question was raised numerous times through the pilotage review process. It was frustrating through some of the discussions. In the review, Mr. Grégoire had 13 Transport Canada studies completed, and one of them, done by the AIM Group and released in February 2018, I believe, was on the economic and competitive considerations. I have a copy of the review. I can leave it with you, sir, if you so desire.

I brought a quote from the review. In 2016, when the study was completed, the magnitude of pilotage costs amounted to approximately one tenth of 1% of the value of Canada's maritime trade. Therefore, in the context of the national economy, pilotage costs do not negatively affect Canada's trade competitiveness for importers and exporters.

More specifically, the study also analyzed the question of cost in various other aspects, including the impact of cost on container ships, tankers and bulkers from the point of view of safety, reliability and responsiveness. In every case, it reached the same conclusion: that pilotage costs are not a factor that negatively affects competitiveness. What is of interest to us is that—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Please finish quickly, because I have a lot of other questions.

[Capt Roy Haakonson]

Oh, I'm sorry.

None of the findings were reflected in Mr. Grégoire's report, and to this day we don't understand why.

I'll leave it there, sir.