Transport Committee on May 9th, 2016

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

Thanks. I think that's really entirely under the purview of the federal government and I don't think we'd make a comment on that at this stage.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Mr. Rebeck?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Yes, we're not calling for an expansion. We're saying there is an act in place that covers Air Canada. Those were terms that were put in place when they were established and they came from a crown corporation that got put into the private sector. There are requirements and a deal that they have to live up to.

We're not saying that needs to cover other airlines, but the deal that's in place with Air Canada needs to stand.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate your time.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you.

Mr. Blaikie.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Thank you very much.

I'll start by saying thank you to you both. It's nice to hear some voices from home.

I think part of the issue with Bill C-10 when it first came to the floor and as it has progressed at a rapid pace through the House of Commons has been that it pits sector against sector in terms of trading maintenance jobs for manufacturing jobs, and to the extent that it has serious consequences for the future of the maintenance industry in Winnipeg, it also risks pitting region against region. I think that's what Minister Stefanson was alluding to in her remarks.

Of course that's something we want to avoid. That's why in the NDP, Alexandre Boulerice from Quebec and I have been looking at this. We want to make sure that it doesn't encourage that kind of regional divide. Unfortunately I'm not convinced we are there yet.

I'll start my question to you, Minister Stefanson, just by saying congratulations on your new position and by telling you how pleased I am that on the first issue on which we've had occasion to work together, we're on the same side of the issue. May that long be the case.

I just want to say that earlier I tried to move a motion at this committee that would give time to the Canadian industry players, workers, and their representatives to make the business case for how we could keep this work in Canada. I think that's one of the issues at stake. We've got a federal government now that is pronouncing on the state of the industry in Canada and saying that Canadians can't do this work competitively. I don't think that's true. I don't think it's true of folks back in Manitoba.

You have a new government. You're getting used to these files. I'm just wondering if you would appreciate that time to work with people in Winnipeg to see if they can mount a business case for how they could do the work under the existing terms of the act.

Deputy Premier, Government of Manitoba

Heather Stefanson

Thanks very much. Yes, I look forward to working with you on this file.

I think that we have a very diverse economy that's on the cutting edge of technology here in Manitoba when it comes to the aerospace industry. I think that we can be very competitive here. We've shown that we have been in the past, and we can be in the future, but when it comes to a bill like this, it's sort of putting the cart before the horse. It could potentially have a negative impact on jobs and our economy here in Manitoba. We have to step up, regardless of what political party we're with, and stand up for Manitobans.

That's what we're doing today. We look forward to working with you on that. Yes, we do need time, absolutely. We need time to negotiate and to ensure that we come to a very clear understanding and agreement with the other parties when it comes to a net job increase or a net benefit to jobs and our economy here in Manitoba. That is our end goal, and we do need the time to do that, and I thank you, the member, for putting that forward.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rebeck, we've heard a lot about the centre for excellence, and maybe that's part of a deal to change the act or maybe it's not part of a deal. We're not quite sure, but what we don't hear, because it gets overshadowed by these so-called centre of excellence jobs, is what it would mean for employment in the aerospace industry if we simply enforced the terms of the act.

Could you help us take a moment here at the committee to appreciate what it would mean for employment in Winnipeg if we simply enforced the terms of the existing act?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Absolutely. Thank you for the question.

We do need to enforce the act. On that side note you raised, I think the centre of excellence is a great thing, but it should not replace living up to the obligations we have under the act.

Do we need a centre of excellence? We should have one. Is Winnipeg a good place for one? Absolutely. As you've heard, we have a lot of innovation, skilled workers, and the ability to have trained staff take on those roles. However, that doesn't let Air Canada off the hook for the commitment it made.

When it was established, an act was put in place and a promise of having jobs that did maintenance and service work in different regions of this country was established. We've lost those jobs. They moved away from their responsibility and had another entity, Aveos, under them providing that work, and that's folded up.

They need to renew the commitment they've made. Right now there are people who have those skill sets, who I'm not sure are all fully employed where they are. There's certainly the capacity here for us to step up and live up to that. I know our aerospace industry is thriving and could fill that void. Air Canada owes it to us and our government to make sure that act is enforced.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

With these centre of excellence jobs, again, it's great, and it's always nice to have more jobs created, but it's often pitched as if these are moving in to where Aveos was. In fact, they are very different kinds of work.

I wonder if you could speak to the relative benefit of having heavy maintenance repair and overhaul versus the kinds of jobs that are coming with the centre of excellence.

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Yes, absolutely.

Again, on the centre of excellence, it would be great to have some new workers doing that sort of work, but there is maintenance that needs to be done. I think Canada is extremely competitive in that sector. I think we could do that work all over this country.

However, there's a commitment here, and we can step up to provide good jobs that provide an economic benefit in our communities and that we were promised would be maintained and lived up to. That's not the case now. That promise is being reneged on, with no net benefit coming in a different way. They're saying that maybe this will come there instead. I'm not even clear if that MOU is kind of “in support of this, you get that”. It's saying that we need one.

We'll take the centre of excellence and we'll take the promise that we were given, which was for good jobs in our community that are Canadian jobs and that are owed to Canadians.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Rebeck.

Mr. Iacono.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My questions are for Mr. Kevin Rebeck.

First, how many former Aveos employees in Winnipeg still have not found a job, or have had to leave Canada to find a job in their field?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Those are both excellent questions that I don't have the answers to, but I can work on seeing if I can find them. Those are the kinds of questions that should absolutely be crystal clear before decisions like this are made.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

I have another question.

How do the salaries and benefits of the employees who have found new jobs in Canada compare to what they had with Aveos?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

Again, these are good questions. As you can appreciate, I represent 100,000 unionized workers in our province. When they're no longer working, I don't necessarily have the means to keep in contact with all of them. I don't know the answer to that question. I am curious about it.

I do know that there were good jobs here that were filled by people who lived in Winnipeg and contributed to our community and our economy. That's not necessarily the case anymore, and it's because Air Canada hasn't lived up to a legislated commitment.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Fine.

Four years after the Aveos bankruptcy, how would you describe the state of training and recruitment in the aircraft maintenance sector?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

I can't make that comparison, but I do know that a number of organizations, such as Neeginan College, have been doing a great job in bringing indigenous people into training in the aerospace industry. I know there is continued growth and interest there. It is a vibrant sector in our community, but one to which a commitment was made to have a certain number of jobs servicing and maintaining our Air Canada fleet to Air Canada and Canadian standards. That commitment should be protected and kept within Canada.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Would you say that in Winnipeg the aircraft maintenance sector is experiencing growth?

President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

I don't know that aircraft maintenance is growing. I think our aerospace sector continues to have some modest growth.