Transport Committee on Nov. 27th, 2018

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

There were two provinces, British Columbia and Quebec, that did show some leadership with respect to putting a price on pollution. If you look at their economies today, you have to come to the realization that it didn't harm them. It actually made the situation better.

[Matt Jeneroux]

You're exempting the largest emitters, Minister.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Your facts are not facts. They're erroneous assumptions on your part, because those economies that have embraced a responsible approach to both pollution and their economy—

[Matt Jeneroux]

You're exempting the largest emitters, Minister.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

—are actually doing much better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you all very much.

Ms. Benson, you have three minutes.

[Sheri Benson]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would ask you, Minister, if you could, to table with this committee more information about the mandate of the working group that will look at transportation in western Canada. Greyhound has closed, which you referred to. I'm wondering what kind of representation there will be, and I would encourage you to have regional representation. I'm wondering about the timeline and about the intended outcome for that working group. I would like to encourage that working group to look at service and safety standards when it comes to bus transportation.

I would like to raise with you, Minister, the fact that I have heard from people in my province about some of the bus services that are up and operating in western Canada dropping people on the side of a highway. That is not safe. I know you would agree with that.

I'm wondering as well if you could let us know what indigenous communities have come forward with proposals to offer bus service to their communities or surrounding communities.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

You asked a lot of questions there. I don't know if we'll be able to do all of them.

My deputy minister will talk about the working group. I can talk about safety. With respect to any dialogue with indigenous groups, we can get back to you on the information there. That's being led by ISED and Indigenous Services Canada. We can get back to you on that.

Deputy Minister, go ahead.

[Michael Keenan, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

Thank you, Minister.

As the minister indicated, he tasked me to work with our provincial transportation colleagues in developing the immediate measures that were put in place on the day Greyhound closed down in terms of the transition of bus services.

We were also tasked by our ministers to begin work on the future of transportation in the long term. At this point, the overriding focus of the work has been on the immediate challenge in that transition. That has consumed most of the working group's effort. Now that we've done that, we are transitioning. We're beginning a conversation on how we will work together in developing the long-term agenda and how we will engage the key communities in those issues. You will see that coming out in the coming months.

[Sheri Benson]

Would the working group be working with the fact that.... If you're moving on to the next step, what about communities that don't have any bus service?

[Michael Keenan]

I think that is exactly the kind of question that we'll be working through. We'll be looking at the challenges that communities are facing and looking at the challenges that different members in the communities are facing, particularly those who have barriers to transportation because they don't drive or because they have mobility issues, etc.

I'll be frank. We have just begun that conversation about how to move that work ahead, because we have been really focused on the short-term challenge and addressing that.

[Sheri Benson]

Would it be possible to table that with the committee, what work you've done and who is on that committee? I've had a really hard time getting any information to find out what exactly is going on since the announcement in July.

[Michael Keenan]

At this point, that committee is really the deputy ministers. There's a committee of the deputy ministers of transportation, and there's a subcommittee of working officials under that. The membership is me and my colleagues in provincial transport ministries from across Canada; essentially, that is the membership right now. We are building a work program that will include engagement, and the development of that work plan is under way.

With respect to engagement with indigenous communities, we have colleagues here from Indigenous Services Canada and CIRNAC. They may wish to comment on the discussion and the engagement with indigenous communities in terms of supporting them in developing transportation services.

[Sheilagh Murphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

I'd be happy to do that.

We have been engaging and reaching out to national and regional indigenous organizations' leadership over the last number of months. They're interested in the idea of indigenous-led business solutions. We have not had active interest in pursuing that in terms of proposals at this point in time.

We are striking a working group with the Canadian Council of Aboriginal Business, the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, NWAC, and others to work with regional and national indigenous organizations to try to scope out where there might be interest. It's early days, but we intend to do that work over the next couple of months. If businesses come forward—and there are probably tourism companies that are already in the business of transportation that might be interested—then we will work with those indigenous businesses or communities to look at solutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mrs. Block for five minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Transport Canada is requesting close to $10.4 million in funding in these estimates. That's a combination of votes 1a, 5a and 15a, and it includes “[c]ontributions to support the participation of Indigenous groups in the navigation protection system and to establish Indigenous advisory groups”.

Minister, your government is already facing a lawsuit from the Lax Kw'alaams Indian Band as a result of a lack of consultation prior to the introduction of Bill C-48. As is widely known, but swept under the carpet, we heard again in committee last Tuesday from witnesses that American environmental groups funnel money to Canadian organizations to oppose resource development and the expansion of pipeline capacity in Canada. These same groups probably had much to do with your government's decision to introduce Bill C-48 in the first place, as there are no economic or environmental reasons to do so.

In the estimates, as I've said, your department is asking for the amount of $10.4 million, and I'm wondering if you can tell us what measures will be taken to ensure that these advisory groups will not be populated or influenced by American-funded special interests.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I can tell you that these consultations are consultations with Canadian organizations and with Canadian indigenous groups. As you know, and as you mentioned in the context of Bill C-48, there are certain coastal first nations that don't agree with the government's decision on the moratorium, but you also know that there are coastal nations in British Columbia who agree 100% with the decision that has been taken. Recently, in fact, they've been providing testimony to the Senate committee that is looking at Bill C-48, where this bill currently resides.

It's an enormously complex situation, but we feel that the input from indigenous groups is extremely important. Does it mean that it is unanimous? No. It's very difficult when we're talking about a very large number of different coastal nations or indigenous groups in any project, including the TMX, to get unanimous consent, but we are committed to continuing to consult in a meaningful way with first nations and, where we can, to try to address their concerns.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

I want to pick up on what you've just said in terms of continuing to consult. During our study of Bill C-48, we did in fact hear from a number of indigenous communities, and absolutely, there are some that support Bill C-48 and a number that do not. However, I think what was unanimous from those individuals who provided testimony was that they had not been consulted prior to the introduction of Bill C-48. I would just leave that with you.

I want to pick up on the line of questioning of my colleague in regard to the carbon tax. We know that there's been an exemption provided to the air industry in the north, so obviously that's in recognition of perhaps the detrimental effects that the carbon tax will have on that industry and on the costs of operating in the north. I'm wondering if you or your government are contemplating providing an exemption to the rest of the industry across Canada.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

No, that's not in our plans at the moment. We do recognize the particular circumstances of small regional and northern airlines or air transport companies, because they work on extremely small margins in very difficult situations where, as we know, costs in the north are higher in a number of areas. We recognize that.

Let me put it to you. I am really looking forward to hearing from your party on what your plan is, with respect, because you have said that you are going to reach the climate targets of the Paris Agreement, but you have yet to tell us how you will do it. You have some magical painless solution in mind, which we are dying to hear about.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I'm sure you will, after 2019.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Well, why can't we hear about it now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Minister Garneau.

Mr. Hardie, please go ahead, for five minutes.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Well, it has to do with this magic well.... No, we'll just move on.

I have a couple of issues: trucking and VIA Rail.

Truck drivers, the training, the fitness for operating and the oversight of trucking companies, especially the long-haul ones, would fall into your realm of interest. Obviously, concerns have been raised after a number of high-profile incidents, but on a day-to-day basis, with the growth in trade, truck movements, just-in-time delivery and a lot of other things, what are the trends? What are you seeing? What are we doing about it?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you.

We're doing a lot about it. We announced the implementation of electronic stability control, which is extremely important. It has to be put into trucks because it helps to minimize the possibility of a rollover. That is an important piece of technology.

We've also implemented regulations that will force the implementation of electronic logging devices. This is to ensure that we accurately log how many hours a driver has actually driven, because there have been proven allegations in the past that drivers suffer from fatigue when they exceed the limit on how many hours they can drive. This leads to the possibility of accidents. That's another area where we are making changes.

Another one that recently came up, unfortunately in the tragic context of Humboldt—and this was in a story on CBC—was that only one province in Canada actually has minimum entry-level training requirements before a trucker takes their test. That is Ontario. You have to have 100 hours of training before you take your test. We think that this is something we need to implement in all of the provinces. It is a provincial jurisdiction, but it is an item that I have signalled to the provinces we need to look at. We will be discussing this in January. Those are the initiatives there.

On the trade side, we also recognize that when a truck leaves from Halifax to go to Vancouver, there are a host of different regulations as it moves though the different provinces, which have to do with dead weight on the roads themselves, with the potential use of wide-base tires. These are irritants or impediments in terms of maximizing our trade. That is something that we want to work on with the provinces to improve the internal trade within our country.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I had a constituent drop into the office showing me his VIA Rail ticket. He was actually successful in getting at least half of that ticket reimbursed. He took a trip from Vancouver to the Yorkton—Melville region. There were extensive delays, in one case for seven hours, as freight train after freight train headed west with all of that trade that we value so much. On his way back, he decided to forget the train and take Greyhound. He got as far as Edmonton, and they said, “That's the end of our line. I don't know about yours,” so he had a hard time.

In terms of VIA Rail travel time reliability, especially in the western provinces, in competition with freight movement, is there a strategy under development to maybe improve VIA Rail's performance?