Transport Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call to order this meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 28, 2018, we are continuing a study of the challenges facing flight schools in Canada.

Welcome to the committee members and welcome to our witnesses.

For the first hour, we have Elevate Aviation, Kendra Kincade, founder and chair. We've been anxiously looking forward to you being here, especially today.

From the First Nations Technical Institute, we have Jo-Anne Tabobandung, chief flight instructor and director of aviation; and Adam Hopkins, vice-president, enrolment management and student services.

From the Gander Flight Training Aerospace, we have Mike Doiron, aviation safety officer, EVAS Air Charters.

We'll start with Ms. Kincade.

[Kendra Kincade, Founder and Chair, Elevate Aviation]

Thank you for having me here today. This is a great honour.

You are all aware of the shortage that is facing the aviation industry. Right now we have an industry that's looking very hard to fill positions, but is the industry also open to those positions being filled by women?

My name is Kendra Kincade. I am a very proud employee of Nav Canada, working as an air traffic controller for almost 20 years, and now the employer brand specialist. I am the founder and chair of Elevate Aviation, and privileged to be the honorary colonel of the 417 Combat Support Squadron, 4 Wing Cold Lake, Alberta.

Elevate Aviation is a non-profit organization that promotes the world of aviation to women and indigenous people, and we do not turn any men away. One of the first things we started at Elevate Aviation was a mentorship program. This mentorship program has extended into both civilian and military worlds and we are working on creating a five-tier mentorship program.

We are currently in the middle of a project supported by the Status of Women, which gave us $426,410 in funding, to do a nationwide project to determine why women aren't looking at careers in aviation for economic security, and to create recommendations to the industry with our results.

We are just concluding the first phase of this project. We have collected data from across Canada from teachers, students, cadets, industry professionals, etc. A sneak peek from our surveys, which went out to industry professionals, reveals that 63% of people inside the industry believe there is a lack of awareness, 48% believe there is a lack of encouragement and 40% believe there is a lack of interest. We are now working on focus groups and will create a tool kit with recommendations to help companies encourage more women into aviation.

Elevate Aviation gives out bursaries, conducts speaking engagements across the country in schools and organizations, and provides tours in the industry. This year, we will be going to 20 locations on our cross-country tours, adding locations, such as Iqaluit, Prince Edward Island, Gander, Goose Bay, Kelowna and Vancouver to our already existing locations, such as Edmonton, Ottawa, Moncton, Winnipeg and many more.

What we have concluded from our cross-country tours is that bringing people inside the industry is so much more impactful than going to career fairs. This has led to the exciting opening of the Elevate Aviation learning centre. This is a learning centre that we want to take across Canada, with some of your help.

We were honoured to have the Alberta Minister of Labour, Christina Gray, fund our first year with $230,000. We will be running this week-long exploratory learning centre for 10 weeks in our inaugural year in Edmonton, Alberta. Thanks to CEO Tom Ruth and his team at the Edmonton International Airport, we have been given space for a three-year term, and we are thrilled that Nav Canada is on board for a three-year sponsorship.

What we do during this week is allow people to come out for an entire week and explore aviation through fun, hands-on learning. For example, Canadian North has a half-day where it is showing off aircraft mechanics. It knows that not everyone is really interested in that, so to get people's interest, it's going to drop hints all morning and those hints will be used later in the morning to escape out of the Boeing 737 airplane which will be turned into an escape room.

At the end of the week, we pair everyone up with a mentor to stay connected with someone in the aviation industry. We leave time at the end of the week for those who are eligible and who would like to apply for jobs and receive guidance on how to apply for careers they may now be interested in.

During one of the two weeks that are reserved for female adults inside the Elevate Aviation learning centre, we are welcoming some women from an organization called Lives in Transition. The organization helps women who have been in violent relationships restore their lives and find careers. We hope that by bringing these people inside the learning centre, we can help them change their lives through the wonderful world of aviation; find a job to sustain themselves and their families; and create a life they love. As aviation helped me many years ago, and has helped others since, we want to see it help them.

To answer the question, “Is the industry ready for women?”, in my opinion, yes, of course it is. The same survey I mentioned above that came back from participants in the industry showed that only 1% believed that women were not suited for aviation. Although we do hear stories that do reflect the 1% of the survey who said women weren't ready for aviation, I believe there will be fewer and fewer of those stories as we go forward with organizations such as Nav Canada, Transport Canada, Jazz, WestJet and others, all doing things in the aviation industry to create inclusive environments for women and minorities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Tabobandung, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Jo-Anne Tabobandung, Chief Flight Instructor and Director of Aviation, First Nations Technical Institute]

Madam Chair, and committee members, Shé:kon Sewakwé:kon. I am Turtle Clan from the Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory, and I would like to acknowledge the Algonquin people on whose traditional territory we are gathered.

Thank you for this opportunity for me and Adam Hopkins, VP of enrolment management, to join you today to discuss the challenges faced by flight training schools from an indigenous perspective. I am here representing First Nations Technical Institute's aviation program. I began my career as a flight instructor and later a pilot for FNTI's charter service. Since then, my primary focus has been flight instruction and program management. Today I am a class 1 flight instructor, ATPL-rated pilot examiner appointed by Transport Canada, chief flight instructor and director of aviation.

FNTI debuted our aviation program for indigenous people in 1990 in response to an absence of indigenous pilots in northern communities. I am a graduate of the first class and have vivid memories arriving at a World World I airport, walking into the World War II hangar to start my training as the only female in my class. We now have over 150 graduates from across the country in various positions in the aviation industry and a current enrolment of 38% indigenous women.

FNTI students come from coast to coast to coast to learn much more than how to fly an airplane. They learn effective communication and problem-solving skills, recognize the importance of healthy living and understand the historical and contemporary issues facing indigenous people in Canada. Moreover, learning takes place in a culturally relevant environment. We have lived through challenges and have problem-solved to provide a great student experience. Challenges include isolation, homesickness, diverse educational backgrounds and financial constraints. We are very happy to share our solutions to achieve student success.

We develop a culture of a community within a community.

We foster a co-operative learning environment, not a competitive one.

We invest in three key supports for students: cultural advisers provide cultural programming, elders are available for emotional and mental health support, and student facilitators ensure healthy and diverse daily living.

Indigenous people stay connected through Facebook over vast distances and FNTI actively posts student successes, which go viral as viewers see themselves in the faces of our students.

We engage with our community at all levels including day care, elementary school and the whole community. We involve students in organizing an annual community day to thank the community for supporting our programs.

We have indigenous mentors in our alumni who share challenges and experiences and also teach in our programs.

We invest in our graduates by training them to be flight instructors and hire them for our program.

We bring industry expertise to learners through strong relationships with the OPP, Jazz, Air Canada and WestJet.

We continually solicit feedback from the aviation industry to ensure our graduates are well equipped for future careers.

This summer, we are hosting the first annual summer camp for indigenous youth. For many attendees, visiting FNTI will be their first experience away from home. We will provide technically enriched training with culturally respectful activities and indigenous staff to support them on their path toward the aviation industry.

We have collaborated with indigenous-owned airlines to support communities to attend the camp. It's a community-based solution to help address a critical shortage of pilots in the north.

Capacity is our largest challenge and we cannot overcome it alone. We have space for 24 students or eight students per year. FNTI receives 50 to 60 strong applications from across Canada and many from remote communities where air transportation is vital to health care, social welfare and food sustenance.

Since I came to FNTI 29 years ago there has been no investment in infrastructure: runways and manoeuvring surfaces are deteriorating, the hangar requires restoration, perimeter fences are required, and we lack aircraft and current technology to meet the growing needs of students.

With support, we could do so much more. I strongly recommend to the committee that investment in our industry goes beyond aviation and not only increases indigenous participation to address the gap in the critical pilot shortage but is an investment in the economic and social livelihood of indigenous communities across the country.

Niá:wen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll move on to Mr. Doiron.

[Mike Doiron, Aviation Safety Officer, EVAS Air Charters, Gander Flight Training Aerospace]

Thank you, Madam Chair and members.

First of all, let me introduce myself. I've been in the business for 46 years. I've been very fortunate to stay in that business for 46 years. I have close to 20 years of experience with Transport Canada as an inspector as well as a senior manager, both at headquarters and regionally. I spent 12 years at the Moncton Flight College as the CEO and principal. I currently am working with EVAS and GFT on special projects, and am contracted with them to do their safety management program and to assist in their quality assurance program, for both the flying school and the airline.

EVAS welcomes this opportunity to present recommendations to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. The recommendations presented here will fall into three broad categories: support to student pilots, support to flight schools and immigration issues.

By way of a little history of EVAS, the company was started by Patrick and Florence White as a small flying school, with one aircraft. The company currently employs approximately 100 employees, operates 22 aircraft, and is made up of Exploits Valley Air Services, which is the airline component, and Gander Flight Training, which is the flying school. The company is headquartered in Gander, Newfoundland.

EVAS is part of the Air Canada family as a member of the Air Canada regional express that handles the Atlantic region. EVAS also operates charter, cargo and air ambulance operations.

Gander Flight Training currently has over 80 full-time students enrolled, both domestic and international. Dealing with the international market, the school has an ongoing training contract with Rangsit University of Bangkok, Thailand, to train students for the Thai aviation industry.

Historically, the timeline required to work at a tier 2 or tier 1 airline was eight to 10 years of experience before they even looked at you. In today's world, this can be as little as one to three years. There's a very rapid acceleration in how we get people moving into airline seats.

In today's world, we see pilots going from direct entry to first officer to captain in less than three years in tier 3 operations. When this scenario is added to the fact that new pilots are moving on to larger airlines at a very aggressive rate, it causes the entry-level operators to be stuck in a new-hire training cycle that is time-intensive and very expensive.

For example, EVAS has approximately 67 pilots on strength. In 2018 we hired 34 new pilots to replace departures. This gives us an attrition rate of over 50% annually. The impact of this is the requirement for multiple senior staff members to be involved in training programs at a higher rate than you would expect. From a financial aspect, the training cost for each new pilot is approximately $20,000.

The main issue within the flying school is keeping a working cadre of senior instructors as well as training enough new commercial pilots to start working as junior instructors. Once again, the school suffers from a high attrition rate of instructors. A new instructor starts off as a class 4 instructor, which requires increased supervision by a senior class 2 or class 1 instructor until they upgrade to a class 3. This normally takes six to eight months. It should also be noted that the school cannot operate without at least one class 1 or class 2 instructor.

What is effectively happening is that the rapid hiring at the airlines is causing extreme stress for the flying schools to maintain their senior people. A chief flight instructor and a class 1 instructor are needed to train new instructors. The main issue here is that new instructors are not staying in the instructing world long enough to achieve the experience required to become a class 1 or class 2.

A secondary issue that will be rearing its ugly head here in the near future, I'm sure, is the shortage of pilot examiners. To become a pilot examiner for private or commercial licences, they need to hold a class 1 or class 2 flight instructor rating for the appropriate category of aircraft and at least 1,000 hours of flight instructing experience. Achieving this in today's environment is very difficult.

However, this is compounded by the fact that Transport Canada is taking excessively long time frames to train and certify new pilot examiners. From our experience, the actual training process, which takes approximately two to three days of focused activities to complete, has taken as much as six to 12 months. Over the last decade, Transport Canada's level of service has become a serious issue for operators. Whether it's licensing of pilots, approval of operational manuals or amendments, or specialty activities such as pilot examiner training, the current time taken is way outside the norm. It recently took over one year to get a flight training manual approved.

Let's talk a bit about student financial support. As you are probably aware, the cost of becoming a commercial pilot today is approximately $60,000 to $80,000. The student loan system is based on a four-year university model. The loan amounts are based on weeks of training versus tuition costs.

What this means is that the average student might get $20,000 instead of $80,000 to help with his or her tuition.

I have a couple of recommendations. I'll skip ahead a little bit here because I'm running out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Doiron; you're over your five minutes. Could you hold those recommendations and provide them in response to some of the questions from the members?

Mr. Jeneroux, you have six minutes, please.

[Matt Jeneroux, Edmonton Riverbend, CPC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

Before I get started, I want to bring up the point of M-177 and how I feel that it failed to look at what's more interesting to the committee: that there are issues with regard to having more women in the industry. If Mr. Fuhr were here today to hear these comments, I think it would be something that he could take back. Again, it's been raised a number of times that it would be nice if this motion addressed getting more women involved in the industry.

I'm thankful that we have somebody here today, Kendra Kincade, who spoke in favour of that and about a lot of the work that she does. I know she goes across the country, but in my city of Edmonton, she does a lot of work in that regard.

Thank you, Ms. Kincade, for that.

I want to start my questions with Ms. Kincade. You talk about getting more women involved in the industry. Why are women or even men, for that matter, leaving the industry? We've heard a variety of testimonies, but we'd be interested to hear from your perspective, a strong training standpoint, on why you think people are leaving the industry.

[Kendra Kincade]

I think it depends on the area of the industry. It's so different. If we're talking about air traffic control, where I am, fewer than 1% leave.

With regard to pilots, for some of the people we talked to, it comes down to financial reasons. They can't afford to stay.

There are, sadly, some cases where we know some women who have left the industry because of things that have happened to them. We're hoping that, through mentorship programs and other things we're doing, we can help solve those problems.

In particular, with regard to one lady I'm speaking with now, there were issues that happened to her, and there was no place for her to go. When she reported it to her own company, there was no support for her. I think that's a very small part of it. I think we're getting much better with that.

Pilots are the huge area, and I think it's financial. It's really hard for people to afford to become pilots and to stay in it. One of the problems is that you become a pilot and then you have to get your hours. Then maybe you need to have another job. You have to get your hours, you have to prove that you're going to be a great pilot, but then you have to work at Walmart or wherever or be a waitress or waiter to help support that job while you to try to raise your hours. That can be really impossible for some people.

[Matt Jeneroux]

Is that because pilots are not being paid enough?

[Kendra Kincade]

Yes. For instance, my son just got his private pilot's licence, so now he's moving on. He has to build hours. He has to go out and fly and build hours and pay for that. How does he pay for that? He has to get a job or ask mom. He has to go out and get a job so that he can afford to go and build up his hours at the flying club.

It's really expensive. If you don't have $60,000 to $80,000, how do you become a pilot? Why aren't the companies...? I know it's different with Nav Canada because it's the air traffic service provider, so it is paying the employees to train and become air traffic controllers. I don't have the answer for how that works inside the aviation industry for pilots. If there's a pathway for people that is streamed from working with the flying clubs to working with different levels of airlines to build up so that they can go to Air Canada or WestJet—but helping all the people along the way—that seems a possible pathway.

Also, there is helping people get loans to get their private pilot licences. That seems to be a problem right now.

[Matt Jeneroux]

You mentioned a great advocate in Edmonton, Tom Ruth, with the Edmonton International Airport. He and the airport authority do great work around the region.

In your opinion, is that unusual? Could airport authorities do more of that work?

[Kendra Kincade]

I just went down to the Canadian Airport Council board meeting in L.A. about two weeks ago, and I was speaking with all the airport CEOs across Canada. They all seem very interested, from my point of view anyway, in helping us take our cross-country tours and our learning centre to different airports across the country.

I think everyone is on board to help out and make this happen. Tom Ruth is definitely a leader in that, in believing in us and helping to give us space for this learning centre. I am so grateful to him.

[Matt Jeneroux]

You say there's not much turnover on the air traffic controller side, but on the pilot side, are they leaving the industry altogether? Is this a hurdle? Do people get frustrated at the point of getting those hours and say they're out, they're going to a different career?

[Kendra Kincade]

I don't think I would be the best one to answer that, because I'm at the beginning, pushing people in, or encouraging people to get in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We will move on to Mr. Iacono.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for being here this morning.

Ms. Kincade, Elevate Aviation sets itself apart by its approach of focusing on the participation of women in Canada's aviation sector. The support you are providing for young Canadian women is as beneficial for them as it is for flying as a profession.

Can you tell us about your plan to improve women's economic security by giving them access to careers in Canada's aviation industry? What are the starting hypotheses you want to verify and how will the project implement measures to improve and encourage the inclusion of women in the profession?

[Kendra Kincade]

Status of Women gave us $426,410 to do a three-year project to determine why women aren't looking at aviation as a career for economic security, all across Canada.

We have now closed our surveys. We sent out surveys all across Canada to students, to air cadets, to COPA, to industry, to the CCAA, to a number of people, and we're bringing those results back. Our next step is to look at all these results—from teachers, guidance counsellors and students—and then do focus groups.

We're going to go across the country. If anyone wants to host a focus group with us, we are looking to find out the answers that come from looking at the survey questions. From the focus groups, we are going to create a tool kit meant for companies in aviation all across Canada. We'll provide recommendations from what we see of why women aren't looking at aviation as a career for economic security. Focus groups will help us come up with recommendations to the companies.

The next phase is going to be for us to work with the companies and monitor them as they implement our recommendations.

The final phase is for us to go back and see whether these recommendations made any difference, whether we're seeing more women come into aviation. Hopefully, we'll just continue to do things from there. The end of this project doesn't stop the push to get more women in aviation.

We bring women in on our cross-country tours. In the morning, we always ask them who's here because they love aviation, and no one says anything. Then I ask who's here because you get a free day off school, and they all laugh. But, at the end of that day, they're all walking around saying they want to be helicopter pilots, air traffic controllers, aerospace engineers. So they want it; they just don't know they want it yet. We're hoping that this happens.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

At our last committee meeting, we heard from Ms. Farly, the owner of the Aéro Loisirs school in the Laurentians. Ms. Farly emphasized that, although the environment is predominantly male, she had never experienced any discrimination. I understand that this is still a subjective perception, but I would like your opinion about it.

Ms. Tabobandung, in your opinion, what should be done to ensure that girls and women will be attracted to aviation and will want to stay in it?

[Jo-Anne Tabobandung]

That's a very insightful question. At FNTI, we haven't targeted women to come to our program, but it's a result of the culture that we create.

When I started in aviation, in my training 29 years ago, I was the only female student. We had all male flight instructors, we had all male executives, we had all male management. Everything was male. My experience was okay. It wasn't the greatest. When I look back now, I know it could have been better.

Even then, I didn't even know a female pilot, let alone a female indigenous pilot, to have as a role model. My husband is here today. He went to school with me. He's an Air Canada pilot. When we started, we didn't have any indigenous mentors. What we've done at our school is create indigenous mentors by celebrating successes of people in the program. When one of our students goes solo, we post it on Facebook and it goes viral. We say, “Here's Kayla. She's from north of Thunder Bay. She just went solo.”

It goes viral because indigenous youth see themselves in the faces of our students. They see it's working. They see the co-operation at our school and they all want to be a part of it, so it's more inviting. I believe female indigenous mentors will promote more women in aviation, as well as having women in senior executive positions in aviation.

I believe for myself, and Kendra as well, that being in those positions really helps us create an inclusive environment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you.

Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us.

I will start with the representatives of the First Nations Technical Institute.

Ever since we started this study, two problems keep coming up: attracting new students and retaining them. You talked about the community aspect and that interested me. You seem to have developed a true feeling of affiliation to the indigenous community and you want to give back to the community that made your path easier.

Would any of the aspects of your practice be transferable to flight schools that are not in indigenous communities?

[Jo-Anne Tabobandung]

We're just one flight school that has gone through the challenges and is able to create a great environment. I honestly believe this can be created anywhere in Canada if we want to increase indigenous participation.

With indigenous people, we're so deeply rooted in our communities and in our families that it's difficult to go away to school; it's really difficult to leave your family. Therefore, if we can create a co-operative learning environment, not a competitive one where if you don't make the grade you're out, which in a lot of mainstream schools is the case, by creating that type of environment, it automatically fosters co-operation and community. We actually call our school “a community within a community”. The students go to school together, they live together and they share their different cultures. Thus it's part of nation-building as well for our people, and it has really worked.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

I have a quick question for Ms. Kincade. It is interesting to learn about what your organization is accomplishing. Does your organization have a francophone equivalent?

[Kendra Kincade]

At the learning centre in Edmonton, there is not. On our cross-country tour, we go to Montreal and we have French speakers there, and in Ottawa as well. On our cross-country tour we have speakers in the morning and tours in the afternoon inside the industry, so whether we have French speakers depends where we go.

Our Status of Women project is also translated. It is bilingual.