Transport Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you for that.

I have met on site with CN Rail, but to no satisfaction—besides being very much pacified—with respect to trying to deal with that specific issue. To their credit, we did deal with another issue. That very issue, again, hasn't been dealt with to the satisfaction of the community. The next step, of course, is to involve the community, which I intend to do.

You also mentioned bringing in the CTA, and getting them involved as well.

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Great.

Madam Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

One minute.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I will pass the rest of my time to Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I understand that Transport Canada can now assess administrative monetary penalties. You're nodding, so that means yes. Have you done it yet, and what effect do you think that's going to have?

[Brigitte Diogo]

This is one of the new regulations that were put in place after Lac-Mégantic. It came into effect in April, 2015. Like many of the tools that we have been given, it has been used. In fact, on our website, all of the penalties that we have issued are listed there. To date, we have issued a total of half a million dollars in penalties to various railways.

The tool is really how to bring companies back into compliance, but our work doesn't stop there. Issuing monetary penalties can address an issue in the short term, but we continue to follow up on a particular issue to ensure that the measures a company has taken are lasting.

In our experience, it's a very good tool. We are very careful in how we use it, because our penalties are pretty high.

I think that overall, when we do our inspections, we've seen improvement in the compliance that the railways have to achieve. The defect rates are going down. I can't say that it's due to penalties, because it's not an automatic penalty. Overall we think that it's another tool in our series of measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

When I hear the Department of Transport officials describe Canada's rail transportation system as one of the safest in the world, despite the deficiencies, I'm certainly glad I don't live anywhere else, to put it mildly.

In previous studies, the issue of railway auditing by inspectors came up. Am I right to think that the majority of inspectors—who aren't all that numerous—do more inspections on paper? In other words, they flip through railway reports, ticking boxes before giving the green light.

Of the total number of inspectors, how many are on the ground checking whether the tracks are in good condition or the wheels of the cars have cracks?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Thank you for the question.

We currently have about 140 inspectors, out of a total of 156 positions. All of them have to go out to the field. They do their work in two stages. First of all, they do a paper-based evaluation using data provided by the railway. It's important to conduct a paper-based review to see what the company has done, what it has identified and whether it has followed up on its own findings. That information helps us determine what to focus on during the on-site inspection.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I see.

You take a risk-based approach, then. You examine the information on paper, and if there are any red flags, you send out an inspector to examine the situation. Is that correct?

[Brigitte Diogo]

No. I think that's an oversimplification of the work we do.

Every year, we develop an inspection plan using a number of sources of information. We review the volume of transported goods, past inspection results, safety management system audit findings, as well as accident-related data. We look at a set of economic data to measure the risk in different areas.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

The number of inspectors at Transport Canada has been dropping for years, even though rail transportation has grown exponentially. At the very least, doesn't that call for an adjustment on your end? It seems to me the number of inspections should keep pace with the growth in rail traffic.

[Brigitte Diogo]

The number of inspectors has actually gone up significantly since the accident in Lac-Mégantic. The government gave us a lot more resources and better equipment to carry out that function, and the number of inspections has gone up as a result.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

According to the figures I have, 25 out of 141 inspectors are actually on the ground. The others merely do paper-based inspections. Are you disputing that?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Very well. I'll do some homework.

With a risk-based approach, how can Transport Canada be proactive, not reactive, whenever a rail occurrence or accident happens, as we saw a few weeks ago, with the minister's response to a train derailment? The department could have introduced measures immediately following the Lac-Mégantic accident. It's been six years since the tragedy, and three out of the five recommendations have not been implemented.

Can you at least tell us that, in the upcoming March report, your response to the TSB's five recommendations on the Lac-Mégantic accident will receive a “satisfactory intent” rating?

[Brigitte Diogo]

That is our hope.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It's not a matter of hope; it's a matter of action.

[Brigitte Diogo]

I'd like to finish answering your question, if I may.

The department has taken a number of measures in response to the TSB's recommendations. We've taken all of the recommendations related to the accident seriously and have been working very hard to implement them.

As you mentioned, it's an industry, a sector of the economy, that's changing, and the risks are changing as well. With every reassessment, the TSB calls on us to examine different facets of the issue, and that's what we are doing. With every reassessment, the department has provided a meaningful response and that work is ongoing.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I was rather surprised by something I learned earlier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Make it very short, Mr. Aubin, please.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Very well.

I was rather surprised to learn that the Minister and his TSB counterpart had met very little, and that the public views the TSB as a very credible organization, on the whole.

Shouldn't Transport Canada and the TSB have a closer working relationship?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Mr. Aubin, even though Ms. Fox doesn't meet with the minister,

within our department we meet on a regular basis. Monsieur Laporte and I have met frequently over the past month. It is a regular ongoing conversation, discussion, sharing of information and best practices to be able to respond best and for the TSB to have a real important view in terms of what our work is.

Brigitte, perhaps I could just let you augment that.

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes. I would also like to add that the TSB is an independent agency, and in fact it does not fall under the portfolio of the Minister of Transport.

The Minister of Transport is not responsible for the TSB.