Transport Committee on Feb. 28th, 2019

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

While that is very true, I would suggest that past appearances don't, I think, give the minister a pass on coming and speaking to this committee when we are tasked with the very important job of scrutinizing the current supplementary estimates and would appreciate the opportunity to ask questions of him on these supplementary estimates. I do recognize that the Minister of Transport has appeared before committee many times.

I think it goes without saying that if it weren't for the previous Liberal government and those serving them in Ontario, the current Ontario government would not be in the position it is of trying to deal with the mess that it was left with.

Having said that, I will turn to the interim estimates now. I have a question for Mr. Keenan.

In the interim estimates, Transport Canada is requesting $3.4 million for the community participation funding program. Could you tell us if there are any safeguards in the application process to ensure that the funds given out through this program are not used for political purposes?

[Michael Keenan]

The activities in the community participation program, which is under the oceans protection plan, that would be supported and funded and that the government would contribute to would be ones directly related to marine safety and coastal ecosystem restoration. If there were a political activity, it would not be eligible under the terms and conditions of the program.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

In response to an order paper question which I submitted, I do have a list of funding recipients of this program between November 4, 2015, and November 2018. The recipients include very political groups like the Georgia Strait Alliance and T. Buck Suzuki Environmental Foundation, and there are more.

I'm wondering, again, how Transport Canada can be sure that this money isn't being used directly or indirectly for political purposes. What sort of criteria or mechanisms do you have in place to ensure that it isn't being used for those purposes?

[Michael Keenan]

There are several.

The first is that, in the construction of both the terms and conditions and the results...the work and results, that is the purpose of the contribution agreement, it's very clear what it's for and what it's not for and that the recipient would need to demonstrate that they are actually executing the work that was agreed to. If they don't execute the work that was agreed to, then in terms of the administration of the contribution payment, the funds that were committed wouldn't flow because there is an agreement about what they will do.

For example, if some entity didn't perform the required activities, then in terms of the review of the contribution agreement, we wouldn't make the payment. It does sometimes happen that, for whatever reason—sometimes it's for circumstances beyond the control of the recipient—they're unable to carry out the work that was committed to.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I want to make sure that I understand what you've said.

Through an application for funds, they demonstrate what they intend to use the funding for. After their work has been completed, they report back to Transport Canada how those funds were spent, in order to demonstrate that they were, in fact, used for the purpose they were given.

[Michael Keenan]

Yes. I can turn to my colleagues, but that's it. It varies. The exact details of how we execute this process will vary by the recipient and by the amount, but essentially, that is at its core the process.

For any recipient, the question is the activities have been agreed to and these activities would relate back to community capacity building, in terms of marine safety or ecosystem preparations.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Just off hand—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Ms. Block. You're—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I just want to ask a question.

Was the time paused for Mr. Iacono's point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It was.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Go ahead, Monsieur Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have four minutes.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'm going to ask three questions in four minutes.

My first question is for the Transport Canada officials.

In its 2017-18 to 2021-22 Corporate Plan, CATSA states that its goal is to have all major Canadian airports participate in the CATSA Plus screening concept initiative. If all major airports were to join this program, do you have any idea of how much funding is required? Does Transport Canada think it's necessary to implement this program?

[Michael Keenan]

There are two things.

I apologize, but I don't have detailed knowledge of that program.

In our work with the large airports, we ensure that they actually deliver on the commitments they've made to us, under either a program or the lease agreements, because Transport Canada is the landlord for most of the large airports.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Keenan, given the short time we have left, could you get back to us in writing on this issue?

[Michael Keenan]

Yes.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

My other question is for the officials from the Office of Infrastructure of Canada.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is reported to have spent almost $3 million on the services of 10 consultants, whose names were kept confidential. The services apparently include setting project objectives and evaluation criteria.

What's the reason for such an astronomical amount of money for consulting services? First, what were those studies? Can you tell us a little more about it? I think $3 million for the services of 10 consultants is a huge amount.

[Kelly Gillis]

You have to know that the consultants will do complex analyses of fairly large projects, and that the work is expensive. I don't have the names of the consultants or the amounts, but we can ask our information person to forward those details to the clerk.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, I would appreciate it.

My last question is about the Office of Infrastructure of Canada or the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Corporation.

I want to talk about the Champlain Bridge that's going to be deconstructed. Was the only question that the Office of Infrastructure of Canada or the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Inc. asked whether to choose between deconstructing or blowing up the bridge to make it disappear? Have you considered making it a green infrastructure, somewhat like the High Line in New York? The aging infrastructure would be significantly less affected if there were no longer any truck or car traffic on the bridge. Can it be turned into a green infrastructure? Has that been studied or not at all?

[Sandra Martel]

That was considered, of course.

As I explained earlier, the bridge continues to be heavily used. Trucking and vehicles contribute about 20% of the load on the bridge. The load is high and the deterioration continues. Continuing to invest in inspection, equipment and security measures generates significant costs for that type of infrastructure.

Just next to the Champlain Bridge, there is the ice control structure, which has a bicycle and pedestrian path. That path has a view of the new bridge and can be used very well. There was equipment around the bridge to meet that need and eliminate the risk of the Champlain Bridge.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Aubin.

We have completed the full sheet here. Do we still have some outstanding questions? I suggest that whoever has some outstanding questions try to get them on the floor.

Ms. Block, you'll have two minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

I want to follow up again on my previous line of questioning. I just want to ensure I understand that there are ways in which Transport Canada can ensure that when funding $35,000, say, to an organization, none of those dollars is actually being used by the organization for any kind of political purpose.