Transport Committee on May 16th, 2016

[Brigitte Diogo, Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport]

An example would be a railway company that has made a decision to start transporting dangerous goods. That would be a major change. It would have notified the department. It could also be a change in the volume of dangerous goods they are carrying.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

With protective direction 36, railways must now post on their websites the breakdown of the top 10 dangerous goods they transport through a municipality, and provide a public report that communities can access. How are dangerous goods determined?

[Benoit Turcotte, Acting Director General, Department of Transport]

I will answer that one.

Protective direction 36, as you know, was recently issued. It brought a number of improvements that municipalities and railroads worked together on.

However, dangerous goods are assessed by the shipper, the person responsible for transporting the dangerous goods under the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act and regulations. There are various tests and criteria to determine whether or not a particular cargo or goods are considered dangerous. There are nine classes of dangerous goods. It is up to the shipper to assess whether or not it meets the criteria for dangerous goods.

Once those criteria have been met and it is established that these are indeed dangerous goods, the shipper must determine the proper means of containment for transporting those dangerous goods, ensure proper awareness—that the proper placarding is placed on that means of containment—and ensure that the proper shipping documents are prepared.

In addition, certain dangerous goods, such as a number of flammable liquids, require an emergency response assistance plan.

So there is a whole process and a whole set of requirements under the act and the regulations that determine that.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

We know there will always be people who will oppose the transportation of dangerous goods through their communities, regardless of the safeguards that are put in place.

Can you comment on how municipalities use this information?

[Benoit Turcotte]

The purpose of protective direction 36, which is the updated version of PD 32, is to ensure that municipalities have the information required for them to properly plan emergency response and training of first responders. We hope, and believe, that PD 36 will improve that.

There are a number of improvements made to that. One of those, as mentioned, is that public information is now allowed to be disseminated, whereas before it was kept confidential between the railways and the municipalities.

Other improvements now allow for a better sharing of information amongst municipalities that group together, for example, to pool resources for emergency response. A number of other improvements have been made to protective direction 36, which I would be happy to get into.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

You mentioned first responders. I guess these are early days when we talk about protective direction 36, but have you seen any changes to these first response preparations plans by municipalities as a result of this order being implemented?

[Benoit Turcotte]

It's difficult to say. Up until now, since the original protective direction came into force, close to 800 communities have signed up to receive that information. We know they are finding it very useful. We do know they wanted to learn more, so I think the new version of this protective direction will provide them with more information. It is allowing them to start determining what goes through their community, which is very important, especially now that a list of the top 10 dangerous goods will be offered. That will allow them to really have a much better understanding of what goes through their communities, particularly when there are large quantities of dangerous goods such as with unit trains. In Canada, those are primarily transporting crude oil and ethanol. It provides much more information, so we think it is useful and working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

During the TSB's presentation, we had a quick discussion about the use of technology such as fail-safe physical systems that would slow a train down when a certain signal comes on but is not followed.

Are there initiatives to implement similar systems by Transport Canada now? Are you getting any pushback from industry players?

[Brigitte Diogo]

For train control, there is a current working group under the Advisory Council on Rail Safety. It's a joint working group that includes industry participants to look at options and how to enhance train control. One of the discussions we'll be having in early June is taking stock of the work of the working group and discussing the way forward.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Turning to inspections, I lived in Calgary and was one of the evacuees during the flood in 2013. Around the same time the Bonnybrook Bridge, the rail bridge, collapsed and I know that the mayor of the city at the time suggested that a lot of people had been fired from CP.

Do you find a lack of inspectors with the railways to be a serious problem that is leading to increased incidents?

[Brigitte Diogo]

The challenges we are facing is in recruiting our inspectors and the industry is facing the same thing, in terms of massive retirements.

We have visited one of the centres for training that CN has put in place, so the industry is putting a lot of effort into this, from what we have seen, in terms of recruiting very early and training new employees. We haven't seen that being an issue in terms of their ability to be in compliance with regulations. Certainly, we pay close attention to training of those employees.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

What are the biggest obstacles to the successful recruitment of more inspectors?

[Brigitte Diogo]

On the Transport Canada side, it's really how we compare with industry in terms of salary and benefits. It's always challenging to attract employees with experience into government.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Turning to the work-rest rules that are designed to combat employee fatigue with the railways, I know there has been enforcement for non-compliance before by Transport Canada, but have you found the enforcement measures taken have actually had an impact on repeat offenders or recidivism?

[Brigitte Diogo]

It's a difficult question to say yes or no to. What we do pay attention to is whether the companies are responding to the enforcement action that we have taken, and whether the inspector can come to the conclusion that there has been sufficient action taken by the company. The issue of fatigue has always been a very challenging area for us in terms of oversight. However, it's definitely one of the priority areas that we continue to look into.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm just trying to brush over a number of different categories that we got some information on previously.

Turning to the issue of crossings, I know there's some identification of high-risk crossings that Transport Canada does, but is there a plan in place to reduce the incidents that take place at those priority crossings?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes. There are a number of areas the department intervenes in. I think you heard earlier from the Transportation Safety Board about the new grade crossing regulations that have been put in place, and there is a timeline for existing crossings to meet the new regulations.

We are spending a lot of time in terms of education, awareness, and communication with municipalities and road authorities about what the requirements are. The department also has the funding program, the grade crossing improvement program, that would allow municipalities and railway companies to apply for improvements to existing crossings.

There is also the work we do with Operation Lifesaver in educating the public about trespassing and the risks to railway safety or individuals' safety, in order to prevent accidents.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I figured I was out of time. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Sorry.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thanks. It's good to see you here again.

The Auditor General in his fall 2013 report and again this fall raised serious concerns about a wide range of failings in the department's inspection and enforcement regime, including inspection findings not being well or consistently documented, poor follow-up on inspections to verify compliance, failed enforcement action, lack of enforcement training, failed oversight to ensure effective enforcement, and no training in risk assessment.

This was repeated by the Transportation Safety Board, the rail workers, the inspectors, and communities who have submitted written briefs. A big concern across the board has been overreliance on paper audits instead of field inspections.

What is the department doing in response to all of these concerns?

[Laureen Kinney]

There were a number of reports with different information in them that were all useful and valuable to improving our program. The Auditor General's report in fall 2013 focused on documentation, and they had other areas as well that were addressed.

Those were areas, as we were responding to the actual events in the tragic occurrence at Lac-Mégantic, that we could incorporate in our changes as we moved forward and looked at how to respond to those.

That was built upon by the reports that came out, both the interim recommendations and the final report, from the Transportation Safety Board. We have internal audits posted as well that I think you may be referring to, and those audits also go into some of those same areas.

We've taken a very holistic approach over the last two to three years to look at all of these items, in conjunction with looking at how the program itself can be improved, how training of our inspectors can be improved, and how the follow-up and documentation can be better addressed.

Some of these things are immediate fixes. Some of them are databases and better data coming in from railways, etc., that we can use for trend analysis. A series of elements has been put in place, and we have management action plans to address all of those elements, all of which are very well advanced. Most items are complete.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm not sure if that answers my question, but thank you.

I've been reviewing very closely all the regulations and legislation related to rail safety, and I have to say that it is among the strangest I've ever seen for the industrial sector.

There are two aspects to this, which a number of people have raised. They call it “regulatory capture”, and that is the introduction of industry manufacturing rules. It seems that a lot of the approach is not the government taking the role of developing the regulations and then inspecting them and enforcing them, but the companies manufacturing these rules and then seeking exemptions.

The last parliamentary committee recommended that Transport Canada publicly disclose all exemptions to safety regulations, including the department's justification.

Is the department now doing that?

[Brigitte Diogo]

No, I don't believe the exemptions are published on the website.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Is there a reason why these are not open and transparent?