Transport Committee on May 14th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing today. A warm welcome to Mayor Gros and Mayor Spencer and Councillor Lane from the Long Range Mountains.

Mayor Gros, it was interesting that each one of our witnesses today spoke of climate change. I'd like to ask you to take a couple of minutes to tell us how climate change is affecting you in terms of differences in the Anchor Point and Strait of Belle Isle area, especially these past few years?

[Gerry Gros]

Oh, I think this past year has been the biggest change. Ice conditions were so bad that the ferry going from Black Tickle, from St. Barbe to Blanc-Sablon was tied up. I don't know how many days it couldn't make it across. Even the icebreaker couldn't come across, so I think that's the biggest change I've seen. I haven't seen weather like this ever since I moved here.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

We won't ask your age, Gerry.

Mayor Spencer, congratulations. You have a new vessel. It's the first time in 30 years, I believe, that Marine Atlantic has given you a new vessel, so we're looking forward to seeing that in Port aux Basques.

Can you please give the committee a few comments on how you're seeing climate change affect your area? I know you have that Vardys Island issue, so perhaps you could elaborate on that for a minute or two.

[John Spencer]

Yes. Since 2016, Marine Atlantic's trip cancellations have risen by 51%. This past fall and winter, they cancelled 202 crossings. We saw winds like we have never seen. We have a big issue in our harbour; we have an island right in the middle of the harbour. We had a study done. We're looking for funding. We had put forward to remove that island. The biggest issue we have is capacity. The issue is solved by getting those boats in and out of the harbour safely. With the weather, the way it's changing, you go around my community and you see siding and roof damage. We've never seen winds like that. I'm not going to age myself, I'm 90, but I've never seen that stuff before in my entire life.

It certainly impacts us, and we need major infrastructure improvements if we're going to maintain this corridor, because what's happening is it's impacting our food security. The food shelves are empty. We're seeing deteriorating fruit. A clam shell of strawberries costs $8. It's expensive. So, yes, climate change has really impacted us.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

You referenced some numbers in your presentation, but overall there has been an increase in goods and services as well. The cost of living for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, because of the cancellations and the deterioration of product.... You mentioned the fresh fruit. I believe over 90% of the fresh fruit in Newfoundland and Labrador comes in. Has the Town of Port aux Basques and the Town of Anchor Point, and the areas that would be impacted by a tunnel, met with you to talk about how the circle route would be beneficial to all?

[John Spencer]

No, not as of late, we haven't met to discuss that. We've never had any meetings about the circle route. We have a great circle route now for tourists coming to the island, going through the Argentia, which is non-constitutional, which the federal government offers. It allows people to come in to the island and come back through the island.

You mentioned costs. If I can say one thing about the costs, the thing that irritates me the most is my head tax. There's a head tax on people travelling out of Newfoundland. This year they announced there will be no rise in fares for passengers, but commercial units went up 2%, and there's a fuel surcharge on every ticket sold for every individual who travels. My wife and I just made a reservation. I pay 18%, my wife pays 18% and I pay 18% on my truck, a fuel surcharge. When a bus comes in, every person on that bus pays an additional 18%. That's killing tourism for me. It's driving up the price of commodities. I had to mention that as well.

When you talk about the fares going up, they've had the fuel surcharge in place since 2007. As a Canadian, I think it's very unfair when you have to make a choice between whether you want food items on the shelf versus the price you have to pay for them. We are a retirement community; the average median age is over 50. A lot of people are making choices that they don't want to be making.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

We hear you on the fuel surcharge, Mayor Spencer. You and I chat regularly, so I'm familiar with that. Again, the fuel surcharge was hopefully to get the vessels more environmentally friendly and better fuels to do that, but we will address that.

Another question I have for you—

[John Spencer]

Oh, you'll get me going here.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Well, we're going to run out of time, my love.

Some good news from Marine Atlantic was the appointment of a new CEO. Can you tell us how you think that's going to have a benefit for Marine Atlantic, the whole operation?

[John Spencer]

I'm excited about the new board. It's good representation from people who know the issues on both sides of the Gulf—Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. There are people who understand. I was a former schoolteacher and there are people I taught in my school. It's a good working committee. There's a dairy farmer, a finance person. There are people who understand the issues we're dealing with now, so I'm looking forward to working with this board, moving forward. Yes, I am pretty pleased.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

I believe that your new CEO, Mr. Hupman, has been around Marine Atlantic for a long time and will bring a different lens, so it's great—I'm assuming that you think it's great—to have some local knowledge and someone very familiar with Marine Atlantic operations.

[John Spencer]

Yes. Mr. Hupman owns a house just up the street from me, so that's nice to hear, too. It's been good news from that particular venue.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hutchings.

We'll go to Monsieur Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank all of our guests for being here with us.

My first question will be for you, Mr. Greer.

In your opening statement, you went very quickly over the recommendations and said that you would be sending them to the committee, but I would like you to speak to us now about two or three of the main recommendations so that we may respond to them.

[Ryan Greer]

Sure.

Some of those are other policy resolutions that the Canadian chambers and boards of trade have passed. One is linked to the need for a pan-territorial transportation strategy. Obviously, the need for infrastructure far exceeds the amount of funding that's available in the north. That, combined with the jurisdictional divides, the segmented nature of the way projects are decided upon, and how political parties are established.... We think that infrastructure investments in the north would benefit strongly from having a pan-territorial approach, some sort of pan-territorial coordinating body, to try to bring the three territories and the federal government together to make more coordinated decisions.

We have another resolution on the management of the lower Fraser River. It carries two-thirds or three-quarters of the volume of the St. Lawrence. Unfortunately, there are so many different jurisdictions, non-profit entities and levels of government that are involved in the management of the lower Fraser River. There is a lot of concern from our members in the Lower Mainland and from those who require the river to move their goods that decision-making and future planning around the river itself need to be better coordinated, not unlike what I was talking about up north.

We also have a resolution on the books around short-line rail. I think that this committee has heard plenty on the challenges and the importance of short-line rail to our economy, and the challenges of the those railroads in accessing capital funding. We have another resolution on the books for that, and then we have several around trade transportation corridors' seeking more funding, better co-ordination and a greater strategic focus from all levels of government, but especially the federal government, on investing in our trade corridors.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In another connection, you mentioned the white paper on cross-border transport. What were the main issues raised in that report with which you agree and would like to share with the committee?

[Ryan Greer]

Sure.

Beyond Preclearance was started about a year and a half ago. It's co-chaired by the Vancouver Airport Authority and the Pacific NorthWest Economic Region on the other side of the border. It has members in Canada and the U.S.—various organizations and companies—and it's basically built around taking what we had with Beyond the Border and figuring out what the next evolution is of Canada-U.S. border policy.

Both Canada and the U.S. are going to be under immense resource requirements to meet future volumes. This is in terms of hiring tens of thousands of new border agents and having significantly higher volumes to deal with at the border. That's a big problem for all of our members who are already facing, in many cases, significant delays and challenges in getting their good and services through the border.

Beyond Preclearance put out a white paper last year that lays out, across all four modes, what the future of border crossing could look like. This is about how you take new technology, such as biometrics, remote and multi-use screening, and potential issues like blockchain, to start clearing carriers as far away from the border as possible—away from where.... Imagine a crate that is unloaded in the port of Vancouver. If you could clear it in a way that both the Canadian and American border agents could track it and assume that it is cleared and, therefore, can pass seamlessly through the Canada-U.S. border....

What the white paper has done.... The subsequent work that the coalition has been doing is designing pilot projects, in co-operation with Public Safety, CBSA, CBP and DHS, to imagine what these borders of the future would look like and to start pilot-testing those issues now so that we can figure out what the technology is and what the investments will be to keep the border not only safe and secure, but also more efficient.

It's a really good piece of work that we would highly recommend the committee consider in its strategy.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you. We will certainly read it if the document is sent to us.

My next question is open to all, because several of you spoke about climate and environmental issues.

There has been a lot of discussion today about developing road infrastructure. I find it hard to see how we can fight climate change effectively by multiplying the number of roads in an attempt to decongestion them, as hoped.

It's even more problematic because of the lack of truck drivers. Even if we had more roads, we would not have more of those drivers. However, most of the transportation in Canada relies on trucking. Should we not consider a quiet revolution in transport modes--but a revolution, nonetheless--to encourage short circuits, different modes of transportation, and another way of consuming?

For instance, what were the improvement and development project forecasts for route 185? How many years will it take for us to once again be grappling with the same road congestion issues? Will it take 10, 20 or 25 years?

The question is for all of those who would like to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Greer.

[Ryan Greer]

I have a couple of comments.

On fighting climate change, I think that anytime we can increase the fluidity of our supply chains, there will be less congestion, fewer trucks sitting in traffic and fewer regular commuters stuck in traffic at rail crossings and the like. Improving the fluidity of all of our trade corridors can help reduce congestion.

The other thing on the case for more trade-enabling infrastructure is that yes, it should be adaptable; yes, it should be future-proof; yes, we should be thinking about the next two or three decades ahead. The good thing about transportation infrastructure is that unlike all the other kinds, it generates more economic growth, which means more revenue for government to invest in the other types of programs and infrastructure, including the type of infrastructure we may need in the future. Until we know what those modes may be, whether autonomous vehicles or all-electric trucks, growing our economy as much and as fast as possible by allowing our producers to get products to market as quickly and easily as possible is the best way to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Greer.

We'll move to Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome to all of our guests, particularly our Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

I want to focus my questions on Mayor Gros and Mayor Jones.

I'll go first to Mayor Gros, or Gerry, I should probably say, after knowing you for so long.

You talked about some of the challenges and why you think it's necessary for us to seriously consider the potential of a fixed link across the straits. You talked about the bad weather, climate change, wind conditions, ice, and the challenges those pose for trade and transportation for people in your region of the province. You also made reference to new business opportunities.

Mayor Gros, what do you see as the major economic benefits of a fixed link, if it were to become a reality, for your community and for western Newfoundland and Labrador, and of course, the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and Quebec?

[Gerry Gros]

First of all, if we get the fixed link and Route 138 is not completed, then I don't see any benefit. I think the two go hand in hand.

With Route 138 completed and a fixed link between the island and the mainland, transportation time from central Canada to the island and to the lower north shore of Quebec would be reduced tremendously. Right now, goods shipped from Ontario or farther west have to come through New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, etc. As the mayor of Channel-Port aux Basques indicated, there were a number of crossings cancelled this year, so trucks sit on the other side for days at a time. The impact shows on the shelves in the grocery stores. I have never seen produce and fresh fruit in as bad shape as I've seen it this year, along with bare shelves.

Completing that road connection from central Canada to the Atlantic provinces, in particular, Newfoundland, would reduce the cost and speed up the time.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mayor Gros.

The question now, Mr. Jones, is going to you.

Mayor Gros referenced Route 138, of course, in order to make this potential fixed link viable or to have any economic impact.

Have you, as mayor of your community, made representation to your Quebec provincial government to complete Route 138? If so, what is their response to your proposal? Are you optimistic that anybody is listening to this request to complete 138 for the benefit of your region, so that you don't lose any more communities and you can protect your culture? You've talked about loss of culture and so on.

Of course, I'd like you to also comment on the economic benefits that would go with completing Route 138.