Transport Committee on June 4th, 2019

[Allison Field]

Yes, definitely. We do that now. If they have an overcapacity of one kind of car, they'll store them on our lines for a fee. Yes, we do that, and that's a part of—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Your cars are obviously being utilized off the short line or onto the short line by CN and CP to get onto the main lines.

[Allison Field]

I'm not sure I'm following. I'm sorry: one more time?

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

When your car is going onto the short line or off the short line or going or coming from the main lines that are owned by CN and CP—

[Allison Field]

Oh, absolutely. Yes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Again, when those cars are going onto or off the short line, vis-à-vis the benefit of CN or CP to use the short line, is there not more of an opportunity for revenue generation on a per-car rate on or off your short line?

[Allison Field]

If they were our own cars, if we owned our cars...?

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Anyone's cars, as long as they're going on or off the main line. Obviously, if they're doing that, they need you.

[Allison Field]

Right. Yes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

That said, isn't that an opportunity for you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Badawey, but your time is up.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

—to actually charge that rate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Field, maybe you can attempt to answer it at a later time.

Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is for the Port of Vancouver.

Peter, I just want you to clarify a few things. When you talk about volume in the port, does that mean the traffic—the number of ships coming in—or is that the units on the ships as well? Are they one and the same or are there two different metrics?

[Peter Xotta]

There are two different metrics. I've been employed here for about 24 years now, and virtually throughout that time we've had somewhere between 3,000 and 3,500 ship calls per year. That hasn't changed in the last 25 years because, generally speaking, vessel size is increasing.

Referring to the numbers, though, we're talking about volume of cargo, 147 million tonnes of cargo. It grew by 3.5%. Just to put it in perspective, one of the major grain terminals in the port is a four to six million tonne-capacity facility. You can see that, as we grow each year, we need the equivalent capacity of a new grain terminal each and every year as we move forward. The demands on the port and the supply chain are significant.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

This is my last question before I share my time with Mr. Tootoo.

Do you assign metrics to when a ship is idle in the port? Is there a cost assigned? Is there a way to measure that?

[Peter Xotta]

Certainly, depending on the type of commodity and the commercial arrangements between the parties, some are much more sensitive to delays than others, but for a vessel to come in, it's based on size, not on length of stay, to be precise in terms of answering the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Tootoo.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Sikand, for sharing your time.

It's good to see you again, Stanley, Scott and Patrick.

One of the things that I've always said about Nunavut is that it's an untapped resource. The rest of Canada has been explored, dug into and capitalized on, but Nunavut hasn't. I think one of the things that we need as a country, to be able to tap into that resource and allow Nunavut to create a sustainable and stable economy, is that investment infrastructure. I've always said that national programs like this one, whether they be programs or formulas, don't take into account the uniqueness of the north: the time frame that it takes to get things done and the higher cost of doing stuff up there. I've always said that investment in infrastructure in the north is an investment in the Canadian economy, because everything that we need up north comes from the south.

I guess, having said that—and I'll leave it up to who would like to answer this—what would be the economic benefit to Canada from this project? Do you have any specific numbers that you'd like to share with us on that?

[Patrick Duxbury]

I'll respond to that one. Thank you, Mr. Tootoo.

Yes, Nunavut has a small population but huge potential economically. The mineral sector is probably the brightest star in that constellation. We believe that our project would, at minimum, trigger the development of what is a world-class zinc lead deposit in the Kitikmeot region. It's called the Izok corridor project, and it would be triggered by the development of the Grays Bay infrastructure.

We did some economic impact assessment work on this, and just revenues to Canada in the forms of income tax, corporate tax and royalties associated with that development would be about $665 million. If you look at that as a cost benefit, the revenues coming just to Canada would pay for the infrastructure itself on one project. There are many other projects along that corridor that could be developed that would become more feasible with that infrastructure in place. That's just the first layer of opportunity there.

We also believe that that single project, that one mine, would probably generate something around $7.5 billion in GDP over an 11-year economic life. That's just 11 years. We think that project could be extended several years after, because what's happened is, in the absence of infrastructure, a lot of the developers who have played this area are not committed to doing any further exploration because, without the infrastructure in place, what's the point?

They know they have projects there, but until Canada decides it's going to build infrastructure that connects these resources to tidewater and to international markets, there's no further point to doing that work. Canada should be in the business of building its own infrastructure for its own benefit, and there will be lots of investments that will come to this region of the country once that investment has been made.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

You hit the nail on the head there I think. It's just something like...can we afford not to invest in it?

I think everyone knows there are very limited opportunities in Nunavut to create a stable, sustainable economy, and the numbers you just pointed out make it very clear that here's something that—and you can confirm—would create economic prosperity as far as jobs in the region for individuals, and also the business opportunities in the region and in the south.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

For the committee's interest, we need a few minutes at the end to adopt our bus study.

We'll go on to Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

I want to welcome all of you who have joined us for this second hour of our meeting by video conference. Ms. Field, thank you so much for coming to Ottawa.

I found my colleague's speculation about what a Conservative government will do around infrastructure very interesting. All we need to do is look at the previous Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative transportation infrastructure fund, which was created in 2006, and carried on all the way through to 2018, and which I believe this fund was built on. I think you can only look to the past to perhaps see the importance that a Conservative government would place on getting transportation infrastructure done, and done in a timely way.

Mr. Xotta, you stated, “Buy our stuff and we'll get it to you.” Really, it's our reputation that's on the line when our infrastructure isn't efficient enough to meet the growing needs and demands of our exporting nation.

That's an interesting observation, as well. Much of what we export is either grown or taken out of the ground, yet we have a government that continuously introduces legislation that will not only have a devastating impact on our resource development but also our ability to get those products to market.

My colleague referenced Bill C-69, and I think you spoke to some of the issues you have with that piece of legislation, never mind Bill C-48 or even the carbon tax. None of us have mentioned today the impact that has on transportation across this country.

In the time that I have left, I want to ask a question of you, Ms. Field.

I know that short-line railways are an important part of Canada's railroads, a part of the broader network that moves goods from coast to coast, and that we have many in western Canada. You've had an opportunity to share with us your experience with this fund, but could you share some of your infrastructure challenges, and perhaps the opportunity we have through our short-line railways to address greenhouse gas emissions?

[Allison Field]

Sorry, can we do the two questions one more time?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

The first one is to perhaps outline some of the infrastructure challenges, and then the second one is on the opportunity.