Transport Committee on June 15th, 2016

[Duncan Dee]

We didn't specifically look at ultra-low-cost carriers and a managed approach into our market. The one thing we did look at is ultra-low-cost carriers as a whole, as a group. I think it would be fair to say that there have been no examples in which ultra-low-cost carriers would be seen or perceived to be less safe than non-ultra-low-cost carriers. In fact, in many jurisdictions in the EU or the U.S., ultra-low-cost carriers compete side by side with legacy carriers and low-cost carriers. From a safety perspective, I don't think we were able to uncover or see any indication that there would be a difference in safety compliance. Obviously, a key component of that is the regulatory regime, which in Canada is world-class.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you for that.

Vance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have two minutes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie, and Madam Chair.

Mr. Dee, from your participation in and contribution to the review of the Transportation Act, do you feel that a comprehensive study on the creation and development of a Canada transportation strategy with a focus on strategic transportation corridors using a gateway approach would be appropriate, should be a priority, and should be imminent within this process moving forward?

[Duncan Dee]

Yes, yes, and yes, absolutely. I think you've answered Ms. Young's question better than I could have, in that one thing we as a panel could hope for is exactly what you're talking about. For a country that depends on transportation as much as Canada does because of our geography and our population distribution, one of the things that are missing is in fact a national transportation strategy that takes into account all of the various elements that would make our transportation system work better for the future. As Ms. Block pointed out earlier, the effort that we took was once every decade, whereas in many jurisdictions this is a living strategy that is very much a part of their policy decision-making process. For sure, absolutely, yes all around.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Sorry, Mr. Badaway, but your time is up.

Mr. Arnold, welcome.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm filling the shoes of Dianne Watts today, and they are killing my feet, by the way, as Ken Hardie pointed out. But in seriousness, I'd just like to pass on that she lost a brother to cancer yesterday, so that's why she's absent today. It's an honour to be here in her place.

Thank you, Mr. Dee, for being here. You mentioned earlier today that in the north you've identified that the gravel runways and the new commercial aircraft are less compatible and that there are no new aircraft coming on that are compatible with those runways. In the review, I see numbers as to what it would cost to extend runways and pave runways. Did you look at the possibility of a new aircraft manufacturer or retrofitter coming online to actually build or rebuild aircraft that would be compatible? I bring this up not because I'm an aircraft nut but because I'm aware of, I believe, the Beaver aircraft, which are being refitted with turboprop engines, which have basically breathed new life into that aircraft.

[Duncan Dee]

That's an excellent point, and we have certainly heard from a number of northern operators who have in fact been, as you pointed out, retrofitting aircraft and really extending the life of aircraft that have been around for quite some time to address the issue of gravel strips in many of these communities.

The new aircraft—and not even new aircraft—that have been coming on stream over the last few years are not capable of landing on these strips. The gravel kits that used to be available for some of the aircraft that are still servicing these communities are becoming scarcer and scarcer. So, from the perspective of accessibility to many of these communities, but also from a safety perspective in the long run, it's something that I think Canada needs to address, because if these communities are to continue to be a part of our national transportation system—such that the residents of these communities are equal Canadians who can access the rest of the country in a safe, efficient and cost-effective way—we need to look at paving these runways. Obviously, from a budgetary perspective there are limits on how many you can do and how much you can do, but unless we get started on this, it is simply a problem that's just going to keep on getting pushed further and further down priority lists.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I certainly am not an expert, but I question the construction of concrete and paved runways on permafrost—

[Duncan Dee]

Absolutely.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

—with the frost issues up there. That's why I question it. The gravel issue is a Canadian issue, so maybe we have a made- in-Canada solution with aircraft that are compatible.

Next, how has the increased security for air travel affected the north? Has the capacity been able to keep up with the challenges? Or are there still specific challenges there and investment needed?

[Duncan Dee]

That's an excellent question, because it's certainly one that was brought up to us by a number of the northern intervenors whom we consulted. In many of these airports, for some of the security requirements that are being imposed, it's a one-size-fits-all approach, so that if it's true for an airport like Vancouver, it's true for an airport in Iqaluit or Yellowknife or for one of the northern airports. Certainly, one of the things we've recommended is that consideration be given to federal government financial support when these measures are imposed on these communities.

A user-pay model in the far north, where you have customer and population bases that are so small, is extremely difficult to calculate, but it's also very difficult to justify, because in many of these communities you're imposing one-size-fits-all rules without any commensurate financial support to help them achieve those. We heard earlier from one of the members about the costs of travelling up north. In a user-pay model, these rules that are imposed on a one-size-fits-all basis simply add to that bill even further. There has to be some type of consideration given to federal government support.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'll share the rest of my time with Ms. Block if she has something.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Absolutely. How much time would I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's a five-minute round, not a six-minute one, so you don't have any time left.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Duncan, you have three minutes.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I actually have a specific question, but first of all I want to congratulate you on your report, particularly the part on northern Canada. It was the part of the report that I went to immediately, because I used to work in Yukon—

[Duncan Dee]

Absolutely, yes.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

—and I'm well aware of the issues there.

One of the big issues for northern communities, including, frankly, the north in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba—

[Duncan Dee]

Sure.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

—and right on into Quebec, is ice roads. I know that's not specifically mentioned, although you do talk about melting permafrost, but for communities like Fort Chipewyan, with all the fires in northern Alberta, it's warm. Their ice roads are going out earlier because of climate change impacts and, because of the fire, the flights were cut off. You end up with communities that are completely stranded. They can't get to work and they can't get supplies in.

Do you think it's also important for the government to be looking at these northern and isolated communities? If they're actually going to become productive members of our economy, they need basic transportation infrastructure.

[Duncan Dee]

I don't want to overplay it, but it was certainly one of the regrets in terms of our committee that we didn't have the time, and we had to limit ourselves to north of the 60th parallel. The minister of the day actually asked us to look specifically at northern transportation, because of the issues you've highlighted. The challenges in the north are compounded not just because of climate change, but also because of the ongoing impact of things like the—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

“The Beast”.