Transport Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

You mentioned a municipal owner. Do you mean of the project or of the waterway?

[Michael Atkinson]

Both. They may have governing jurisdiction, or they may have ownership of the project.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure.

If we're dealing with a private owner, does your answer differ?

[Michael Atkinson]

No. In most of those situations the private owner is going to have to get some kind of authority from the municipality to construct whatever they're constructing, and the municipality has the ability to enforce strict adherence to construction performance through that measure. You wouldn't need a piece of legislation at the federal level to do that.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Are there local practices everywhere that require you to factor in that navigation on...not drainage ditches, but streams, lakes, rivers when you're doing the design phase of a construction or pipeline project?

Maybe deal with construction first.

[Michael Atkinson]

The design in most cases is very much directed or regulated by the owner—whoever we're building for. If it's a private owner, then they have to get a building permit or some other kind of permit in order to proceed with that construction. They would have to have submitted their design, and if their design is lacking in achieving the standards you've just spoken about—respecting other property rights, respecting navigation, etc.—they won't get the permit.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do you mean from the municipal body?

[Michael Atkinson]

Right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser. Your time is up.

Monsieur Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to quickly go back to Mr. Bloomer's statement in response to one of the last questions. He said that the National Energy Board process had already been modernized.

Could you elaborate on the modernization of the National Energy Board?

[Chris Bloomer]

Maybe I misspoke. I didn't say that the modernization.... I think with CEAA 2012.... That was a step forward.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

The modernization of the National Energy Board Act is not on the agenda. I don't understand the point of my colleague's question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It's Mr. Aubin's time, and if that's how he want to use it, to focus on this, I think it's his right to do that.

Please go ahead.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

However, the answer is very simple, Madam Chair. We are studying a piece of legislation that initially covered the pipeline work. Now, that’s no longer the case. I guess that modernization could also mean that we can go back to it someday, if it is the best solution. I think it's quite relevant.

Mr. Bloomer, let me go back to the principle of modernization of the National Energy Board, because, first, you're talking about 2012, which I understand. However, to talk about the elephant in the room, we have a situation—such as with one of the largest projects, Energy East, not to mention any names—in which, for now, the National Energy Board does not seem to have the credibility needed to move the matter forward and enable all citizens to express themselves clearly and precisely to achieve social licence.

Would it not be more objective to refer this matter to Transport Canada, or do you really think the National Energy Board can modernize its way of doing things to accommodate the wishes of the public?

[Chris Bloomer]

Well, I think the Navigation Protection Act covers the whole aspect of what we're talking about here in terms of energy east or any other new project. I think the NEB...there is a process under way now to have...there is a panel around energy modernization, and those discussions will be had. The NEB has addressed and the government has addressed the consultation issue through the additional consultations on both Kinder Morgan and energy east. Many of those issues are being dealt with, and we'll see the results of the current government processes to deal with them and will participate in that process fully.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

I have a question for Mr. Atkinson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Keep it very short, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

Do provincial or municipal standards for environmental assessment seem higher or more restrictive than in the Navigation Protection Act?

[Michael Atkinson]

My experience and the information I get back from our members is that it's just as diligent, just as vigilant at the provincial level. This is one of the reasons why triggering so many federal reviews under CEAA was really a questionable practice, because since the introduction of CEAA, most if not all provinces have entered into environmental assessment processes themselves. To actually duplicate those processes was a complete waste of time. It had nothing to do with protecting the environment. It was just introducing red tape and uncertainties into the program.

I can tell you that I hear quite a bit from our members. Our members don't go through the process—it's the proponents who go through the process—but they hear from the proponents that the rigour that's used at the provincial level...it's not an easy path for the proponents. Let me put it that way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sikand.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'm sharing Mr. Iacono's time, and so, gentlemen, if you could keep your answers brief, I'd appreciate it.

Starting with Mr. Atkinson, could you speak to the utility of the opting-in scheme or measure?

[Michael Atkinson]

That's something for the proponents. We wouldn't ourselves be involved in that, since we're just the builders. That's something the proponents would have to consider: whether it's in their best interests or not. I can't really speak for the proponents. I only represent the builders.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Okay, that's fair enough.

Mr. Bloomer.

[Chris Bloomer]

I apologize; I didn't hear the question.

[Gagan Sikand, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I was asking for your thoughts on the opting-in scheme.