Transport Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Ian Glenn]

Mark will speak for the association. I'll speak for myself and my company.

I have had to turn away over a quarter-million dollars' worth of work in Canada because Transport Canada cannot react nor does it have the ability to react. There are five regions. Each of the regional inspectors has other jobs, so there is no single point of focus. We have two people. They're lovely folks, but there are only two of them, and that is unacceptable, as I like to say now, because there are more unmanned aircraft flying in Canada than manned aviation, and so is the department going to focus on where the quorum is, and which of them is going to work on manned aviation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Glenn.

Mr. Aruja, you'll have to try to answer Mr. Berthold's questions amongst the other questions that are going to get thrown at you.

Mr. Iacono for six minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for coming this morning to enlighten us on this new phenomenon that cleaves the air.

My first question is for Ms. Riopel-Bouvier.

What is your overall experience with obtaining a special flight operations certificate? Do the delays in obtaining it now seem reasonable to you? How could that be improved?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

Our permanent certificate gives us permission to conduct emergency operations without having to reapply each time. Since we have obtained it, we have seen great improvement in our operating procedures. This has made the process much easier. Before we obtained this permanent certificate, which is valid for highly supervised and very restricted operations, the delays for us to receive our flying certificates were over one month. In addition, our operations were relatively easy to evaluate. In the last few months, this summer, the delays were easily between two to three months in Quebec for operators to receive their certificates.

As a result, a number of operators were no longer asking for a certificate and going ahead with the operation without being certified. Others lost a lot of contracts because of those major delays.

You are asking for my opinion and that of our company on what could be improved to speed up the process. It is not necessarily a matter of hiring more staff to process certificate requests faster, but rather about changing the entire process to an extent.

Right now, Transport Canada and the Canadian Aviation Regulatory Advisory Council are putting in place draft regulations that would provide for operating standards equivalent to those for automobiles or for aircraft.

You do not need to apply for a licence before you drive a car. When you are 16 years old, you take driving lessons and then you get your licence. You have rules to follow. You can drive your car in compliance with the rules of the road. If you do not follow them, you are punished. The equivalent for drones could greatly improve the process.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

So you're saying that, in your case, a certificate valid for one or two years would be more appropriate than having to apply for a certificate for each event.

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

Absolutely.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

For recreational drone users, should the same reasoning apply or should there be other conclusions?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

The use of drones for recreational purposes should be regulated as soon as possible. Those users represent the largest segment at this time. They are the greatest risk to the industry because they are not currently required to have a special flight operations certificate to be able to fly. It's like saying that they don't need a driver's licence to drive their car. That is a danger. In addition, they do not receive the training they need to operate their aircraft responsibly above the heads of the Canadian public.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Right now, how long does it take to get that type of certificate? If there is an event, how long does it take?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

You must submit your flight authorization application at least 20 working days in advance. That means about a month, but the current delays are between two and three months for a certificate to be issued.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Earlier, you said that you were helping the firefighters and the police with their calls. How can you do the work if you do not have a certificate? What are you doing now?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

With the help of our police and firefighter clients, we were able to obtain permanent certificates. That allows us to do any emergency work.

In addition, we had to develop very important safety procedures to ensure that our operations fit into the Canadian sky properly, above the people, and to ensure that everything was safe.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

What do you think are the main drone-related dangers and issues that have not yet been mentioned this morning?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

Most of the devices on the market, including the Phantom I mentioned, still weigh several kilograms. In addition, there are no safety features for those devices. For example, the device has only four motors. Drone motors are sort of like light bulbs: they can burn out very easily. Well, if you lose a motor, it's over, the device falls straight to the ground.

There have been many cases in which control of the devices was lost, which has resulted in many injuries all over the world. There was a case this fall in Beloeil, Quebec. There are still issues. The woman who was injured by the device had to be hospitalized and she is now suing the operator of the drone.

In addition, it is increasingly easy to fly drones. Less and less knowledge or attention is needed to fly those vehicles. They cost less, so people are taking more risks operating them. In the end, they take them out of the box, they push the power button, they start the motor and they fly the aircraft willy-nilly. They do not pay attention.

There are other risks, such as the batteries in these devices. The lithium polymer batteries are the same as the ones for the Galaxy Note 7 phones, which are now banned on planes, but they are bigger.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Distinguished guests, thank you for being with us this morning.

I will continue to talk about safety, because that's one of the things I wonder about, being a neophyte to this whole industry.

We heard from representatives of pilots who have expressed major concerns.

Mr. Glenn, I'd like to come back to this picture, because it stops exactly where my question begins. If each drone was equipped with the transponder you are proposing, who would be doing what when the two flying objects met? Someone who is not really familiar with the industry could assume that the pilot who is flying the aircraft in the visual line of sight may react more easily. However, if you are controlling a drone remotely and you don't see what is happening, who has to do what in that kind of situation?

[Ian Glenn]

The transponder pops up on your screen. Both the pilot and the pilot in command of the unmanned aircraft see each other at ranges greater than 10 kilometres. They both have the same responsibilities to avoid each other. It's like laws of the sea: you always go right. They're the same rules in the sky.

A pilot in command is a pilot in command whether you have a toy you buy at Best Buy or you're the 747 pilot. You have the same responsibilities, and you need to have the same knowledge set. When you see another aircraft in the sky, it's your responsibility to avoid.

We say all unmanned aircraft avoid all manned aircraft, which is true, but both have the responsibility. The issue with the world today is, we can only make a manned aircraft so small because we put people in it, the 95 percentile person. That's why a Cessna is the size it is.

With drones, they're very small, and it's really hard to see them. Both pilots in command have the requirement to avoid each other. That's why you saw the Porter pilots over Lake Ontario take emergency action. They thought they saw something, which they did. What it was, we don't know, but they avoided that incident. The role of the transponder is to allow both pilots in command to see each other much sooner. It doesn't become a drama then. It's simply to avoid each other.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Clearly, I do not know the rules, but I guess the two pilots could not reflexively turn in the same direction. Otherwise, the accident is not avoided.

Is that correct?

[Ian Glenn]

Not if they avoid each other correctly.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

My next question is for Ms. Riopel-Bouvier.

In your theatres of operations, fire, for instance, must mean a number of gawkers who come to the scene. I imagine you operate visual line of sight flights, since you are very close to the scene. In a plume of smoke, however, I imagine you can also lose sight of your own drone.

Do your drones have safety features such as preventing one of the motors from stopping and the batteries from running out, or enabling the devices to connect to a second system? Do your drones have different safety features than can be purchased over the counter?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

Yes. We buy our vehicles from manufacturers. Then we need to add several safety features or make changes to the vehicles to make them safer.

Our most commonly used vehicle right now has eight motors. So, as you mentioned, even if a motor fails, we could ultimately complete the mission and have a normal landing. Also, the batteries are connected in parallel, in case one of the two fails. In short, we do have several safety features.

We also have a number of safety procedures. For example, it is the pilot's responsibility to keep the aircraft in line of sight, avoid the plume of smoke as much as possible and fly with the back to the wind precisely to stay out of the smoke.

You were talking about onlookers. When there are operations as a result of a fire or anything else, it does attract a lot of attention. However, there are teams of policemen, firefighters and paramedics who establish security perimeters precisely to ensure that bystanders do not come too close to the fire scene.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Should the safety features included in your devices become a standard for commercial devices sold to whomever wants to have them?

It seems to me that, in popular imagery, the drone we buy in a big-box store is the equivalent of the remote-controlled aircraft that we bought as a toy in the past, a number of years ago. I will not say how old I was. I was going to say it was when I was a teenager, but it's too far away.

Should the basic units not be equipped as well with this coupling system that increases the safety of the devices?

[Anne-Sophie Riopel-Bouvier]

Absolutely.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

In your opening remarks, Mr. Glenn—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

A short question.