Evidence of meeting #44 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bank.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Glenn Campbell  Executive Director, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Jean-François Tremblay  Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Grant Courville  Director of Product Management, QNX Software Systems Limited

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

That was my understanding, so thank you.

I just want to get to the independent parliamentary budget officer's report here. I know that, from the money that was allocated in the budget.... There was always $186.7 billion there, and then you guys added the $82.8 billion, but there's a concern here that there's no performance measurement framework to evaluate the performance. There's only limited visibility on tracking how the money's actually been spent. None of the departments have published a list of funded projects, and there's still a gap between what has been announced and the value of the projects currently identified by the departments. There still remains a significant gap because the data shows that $13.6 billion has been announced, and they've only identified 4.6 billion dollars' worth of projects, so there is that significant gap.

We know that the budget's coming, and we know that there's going to be a deficit, and the government has to decrease that. Is that part of the holdback in terms of flowing those dollars out?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Amarjeet Sohi Liberal Edmonton Mill Woods, AB

We have approved more projects in the last year than the previous government—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

That wasn't my question. Will these issues be identified and rectified by you, your team, or your department as the parliamentary budget officer has identified?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Amarjeet Sohi Liberal Edmonton Mill Woods, AB

As you can appreciate from your experience as a mayor of a large urban centre, the projects take multiple years to complete—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

For sure.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Amarjeet Sohi Liberal Edmonton Mill Woods, AB

—and there's planning work and design work, and we're supporting those. The money doesn't always follow in the same year that the money is allocated, and that's why you see the lapsing.

Do you wish to add?

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Jean-François Tremblay

The best we can do is make the money available for provinces and municipalities to spend. When we approve those projects, we agree with them on the projects and we agree that the money is there. The way it works is that it's not a transfer like health. The money doesn't—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I understand that. I was a mayor for a decade, so I went through the process and I know exactly the process.

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Jean-François Tremblay

Those projects are going on, and when they claim, we pay. That's our objective, to get the claims.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Yes, but within the context of the framework and the tracking of the project, you would allocate the money and then, each of the two years that it's allocated, you would have that money in there. There's no framework here and no tracking, as what the parliamentary budget officer—

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Jean-François Tremblay

We are developing a framework with provinces. I have calls with them every two weeks, for example, and we have agreements in which we develop performance and also reporting. So, yes, there is reporting in place with provinces. Over the last few months, of course, they have been busier identifying projects with us, which, as the Minister said, was a lot of projects.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm short on time. I guess the overall piece around this was the reason there was such a big deficit was that the money was getting out the door, the stimulus funding to create jobs. I think clearly it's problematic in terms of how that process has unrolled. I think that's the issue because the whole point was to create jobs and make sure to stimulate the economy, and it states clearly that the targets aren't going to be met here. I guess what I'm saying is that we need to shift that and look at how we do that differently to make sure that the goals are attained.

11:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Jean-François Tremblay

We didn't use the word “stimulus”. The objective was to make money available—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

You may not have, but that was—

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Okay, Ms. Watts. I'm sorry, you're time is up.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Okay. Mr. Rayes. I was splitting my time.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

You only had five minutes, so your five minutes are gone.

I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Aubin.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Minister, I would like to go back to the Canada Infrastructure Bank and ask you what you think about its creation.

Let us remember that the Advisory Council on Economic Growth advised the Minister of Finance to create the bank. Let me give you the names of three people who advised the minister to establish the bank: Dominic Barton, from McKinsey & Company, who over the past five years, made his living by promoting fundraising of private capital through public investment; Michael Sabia, from the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec—which I mentioned earlier; and Mark Wiseman—a rather appropriate name—director of the BlackRock management, the largest investment firm in the world that manages about $5 trillion.

Isn't there an appearance of conflict of interest when those advising the minister to set up a bank are the same ones who will make a profit from it? Can taxpayers believe that the bank will make it possible to obtain the best value for the construction or update of the anticipated infrastructure?

Noon

Liberal

Amarjeet Sohi Liberal Edmonton Mill Woods, AB

For any project considered under the infrastructure bank, a lot of due diligence will be done to make sure we're getting the best deal possible on behalf of taxpayers. Our goal is to build more infrastructure. A lot of money in the private sector can be mobilized to build the infrastructure that our communities need to grow our economy and to create jobs for the middle class and those who are working so hard to be part of the middle class.

The private sector creates jobs. It creates jobs in many other ways. If we can mobilize that capital to build the necessary infrastructure as well as grow our economy, we don't see a downside to that.

Noon

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

I have finished, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Aubin.

Minister Sohi, thank you and your officials very much for spending this hour with us.

We want to invite you back, I'm sure, in the upcoming months as we move forward on these subjects.

Noon

Liberal

Amarjeet Sohi Liberal Edmonton Mill Woods, AB

Thank you so much for having me.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We will suspend momentarily while we excuse the witnesses.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We are starting our meeting again on the study of infrastructure and smart communities.

We have with us today, from QNX Software Systems Limited, Grant Courville, director of product management.

Thank you very much for coming. We weren't able to give you much notice, so we really appreciated your fast response. I will turn it over to you for five minutes of opening remarks, followed by questions from the committee.

We also have Marc Miller, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities; and Karen McCrimmon, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport. Both of them, by the way, are available to the committee members if they have any questions they would like to have clarified at any given time, during or after the meetings.

Mr. Courville, please, the floor is yours.

12:30 p.m.

Grant Courville Director of Product Management, QNX Software Systems Limited

Thank you for inviting me. I very much appreciate it.

What I thought I would do in the five minutes that I have is to give you a little bit of an overview of our company, what we've been doing, and how we can work together on some of the initiatives, going forward.

Firstly, as mentioned, I'm with QNX Software. I started with QNX in 1987. QNX is an Ottawa-based company—with over 400 people based in Ottawa—and it has been since its inception. We provide core software that you will find in everything from wind turbines, gas turbines, traffic lights in Ottawa, MRI machines, and laser eye surgery equipment. Atomic Energy of Canada uses our software for nuclear reactor monitoring, and General Electric uses it to monitor the energy grid. We're at the heart of Cisco routers for communication, the largest routers in the world. We really are at the heart of a lot of the infrastructure that we all interact with every day.

We don't get a lot of publicity, but we've started to involve ourselves much more publicly, I'll say, in some of our activities. Thanks to government efforts, we've been able to advertise those and bring about a lot more awareness on a global basis, quite frankly.

Our primary market today is the automotive market, and specifically the automotive market. We're in over 60 million vehicles. We're at the heart of every OnStar system that ships. We have number one market share in infotainment, so if you have a display screen in the middle of your vehicle, chances are it's running QNX software.

I should mention that QNX was acquired by BlackBerry in 2010, so we're a wholly owned subsidiary of BlackBerry.

As far as vehicles are concerned, there are telematics; digital instrument clusters, because they're moving from analog to digital; infotainment systems; and now safety systems in cars. There is tremendous disruption in the automotive market today. The architecture and nature of vehicles is changing tremendously, and that is manifesting itself in the form of announcements and initiatives such as at General Motors and what they announced in terms of what they're doing in Oshawa. There are a lot of initiatives at a provincial level and in private industry. You're seeing investments from Ford, for instance, and from GM into Lyft, into ride sharing and into shared mobility. The automotive industry, and to an extent, transportation, is undergoing incredible disruption.

There is a tremendous opportunity to collaborate among the private industry, academia, and government, to take advantage of this disruption and truly be a world leader. We can do this, not just here in Ottawa but in Ontario and in Canada. We have the technology and we have the innovation. The heart of it is security and communications, for which we're very well known. If you think of BlackBerry, they're second to none in terms of security. If you think of communications and the expertise that we have there....

When I was thinking of infrastructure, one of the things I wanted to put forward was that the definition of infrastructure should, perhaps, be broader than the way most people think of infrastructure. It should involve technologies and communications—and not necessarily roads and bridges and whatnot that probably most people think of today—because transportation in the future is going to change. There are a number of reports that will say that there will be more vehicles or that there will be fewer vehicles. At the end of the day, our job—we offer foundation software—will be making vehicles much safer.

If you think of vehicles today, there are 1.5 billion vehicles on the road today. In Canada, there are roughly 2,000 people who die because of traffic accidents. We can make vehicles safer. We can make vehicles more secure. We can have vehicles talk to each other. We can enable first responders to get more information more quickly. There are so many advantages from an environmental perspective, and we can enable greater mobility for all ages.

There really is a tremendous opportunity from a QNX-BlackBerry perspective. We're working with all the major automakers and all the major suppliers to automakers. We're right at the heart of these next-generation vehicles that, essentially, are going to be a point or a sensor that you can actually gather information from.

We can make the roads a lot more efficient, and we can make transportation much more available. We can do it through technology and through technology that can be developed and commercialized here in Canada, understanding that automotive and transportation are definitely global industries. Obviously, we need tremendous collaboration between the U.S. and Canada, which I think we have and have had.

I can talk a little bit about some of the initiatives there. They have a vehicle-to-vehicle communication guideline that they've put forward for something called DSRC, or vehicle-to-vehicle communications. They're going to mandate that the equipment be in cars starting in 2021, and all vehicles will need to be equipped with that technology for 2023.

Essentially, vehicles will have to broadcast where they are, how fast they're going, what direction they're going in, and what position they're in. Think of, say, a simple scenario where maybe you have a blind intersection. If you have vehicles talking to each other, all of a sudden they can become aware of each other, and then you can get into warning the driver of an unsafe situation. As we look at technology going forward, if the driver doesn't take action, the vehicle can take action, in other words apply the brakes, for instance.

This could be a very long topic and I'm absolutely thrilled to have this kind of discussion. The message I want to leave you with is that transportation and automotive is going through a disruption, and we have a real opportunity.

One of the things we did recently—and I'd like to thank Prime Minister Trudeau again—was that at QNX, we actually opened and launched an autonomous vehicle innovation centre, putting autonomous vehicles, connected vehicles, and safe vehicles on the map right here in Ottawa, Canada. That was a thrill.