Evidence of meeting #58 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I want to go back to the 70 to 80 persons who oversee security screening at Transport Canada.
Can you tell me if that is enough given that it takes three to five months to perhaps screen somebody? Or is that just due to the rigorous process that an individual is put through? Are there backlogs?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I think there are certain backlogs. We have been working on those backlogs. Additional funding has been allocated during the past year to help to offset that to some degree within Transport, and we have the same plan in place for this current fiscal year, so additional resources are being provided for that, but there are a number of elements in the system.
One of the things that we do plan to discuss and work on with the community, including our internal and external partners, is how we can rethink and remodernize, and how can we look at other ways to deliver this program, because it is a very heavy program. It takes a lot of process. We have moved to some online applications in some elements, but we think there is more we can do there.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I'm very interested in what triggers a suspicion. I've heard folks say that if a suspicion arises, or if something changes and we suspect that somebody's status has changed.... What triggers a suspicion?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Maybe I can start. There are many examples. Also, if I may, I'll just add the one point that this is a preventative program. The Minister of Transport has very strong authorities to prevent something happening, so the flexibility in this program is very high. That has been tested in court and it is something that we respect and are very careful about.
If something does arise, it could be as little as a workplace event where someone was upset and made comments that were inappropriate or that raised questions. Those get reported. We follow up on them. It could be an activity that someone in the workplace did that looked like it might be linked to either criminal or extremist sympathies. We've had those cases, and we investigate them. Again, it could be from information that comes from our partners. There are many sources of where that information can come from, but—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Ms. Kinney. If you have any other ideas, maybe you could fill them in with questioning from someone else here.
Mr. Iacono.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My question is for Mr. Oliver or for Transport Canada.
Do employees go through checks before they enter secured areas?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, there is a setup of CATSA screening equipment. It's not exactly the same kind of screening, but it's similar to what the passengers go through.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Every time a person goes through a particular area, it's always registered that they have gone through that secured area, right?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
There are two things that happen. One is that, at that entry point into the secure area, it is controlled and there is airport access control. They must show their identification. They must show their biometrics to the system—electronically in the larger airports—and they must be screened physically and searched, if you will, but that is on a random basis.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
The number of times they go through any secured area is always registered.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, it's all recorded.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Is there any exception to this procedure? Does anybody have an exemption from this procedure, or is it mandatory for all employees who walk through any airport, including yourselves?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
The only exceptions that may occur would be in an actual emergency situation, with uniformed first responders. If the local police of jurisdiction or the firefighters show up and need access, there's provision for them to have rapid access in those circumstances. But if the director of security.... if I go on a tour of a secure area, I go through the same process.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
I'd like to know how often employees who already have a security clearance go through additional checks during the course of their career. For example, I have a security clearance. I'm an employee of five years. What happens with me, or with an employee of two years or 10 years or 15 years? Is there any check?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
We have a revalidation every five years, so if someone has had the transportation security clearance, we do a full revalidation every five years. In addition, there is this daily check of every individual against the police database for any new criminal charges or activities.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Can you just explain the difference between the five-year validation and the everyday check?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
The everyday check is with the RCMP. It looks at the database that Mr. Oliver just spoke about, which has all this fresh information uploaded daily. If we see that, we take some action and we hold an investigation. In addition to that, on the five-year revalidation, the whole process is gone through again, so we go back to CSIS and we go back to the other agencies.
Liberal
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Angelo.
A couple of times it's been mentioned that much of the platform we have in place now arose from the Air India situation. The obvious question goes back to the finding that the information-sharing between the RCMP and CSIS at that time perhaps was not as robust as it needed to be.
Gentlemen, what is your assessment of that situation now?
A/Commr Joe Oliver
Many lessons have been learned over the years, and both organizations have put in place a one-vision strategy that brings the organizations together. There's actually very robust information-sharing, and real-time, ongoing, day-to-day contact and initiatives. The service and the RCMP work very closely, sitting together and co-located in some cases.
Assistant Director, Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
If I could add to the assistant commissioner's comments, as you can imagine and as you've heard this morning, the safety of Canadians is of primary interest to all of our organizations. The catastrophic events of Air India were a wake-up, not only for the security intelligence community but for Canadians in general, so we devote an enormous amount of time and effort to making sure that number one priority is addressed efficiently and effectively.
As Assistant Commissioner Oliver has indicated, the RCMP and CSIS have learned from the events of 30 years ago and have implemented much more robust and effective manners of sharing information and working collaboratively.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
The situation that gave rise to Mr. Aubin's motion, which was very timely, obviously centred around what happened in Montreal. Does this in fact happen on a fairly regular basis, where information is identified and security clearances are ultimately pulled? Do we have numbers that would indicate how unusual the situation in Montreal might have been, or is it business as usual?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
In my introductory comments I talked about a large number, but in the past year, for example, we've had 48 suspended transportation security clearances as a result of the perpetual vetting checks that are done. We've had 20 cancelled, and we've had 448 that were refused, either due to adverse information that was deemed to be significant, or to a lack of information because we can't check their history. So yes, that happens.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
As a result of these security clearances being pulled, was there follow-up? Was there any effort to find out whether or not safety or security had been compromised by the individuals' activity in secure areas?
Director General, Intermodal Surface, Security and Emergency Preparedness, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
We'll work with the airports, airport security, and local law enforcement and do all the verification we can to get as much information as we can. Then we will take that into consideration through an advisory body and make a determination on whether we should revoke, cancel, reinstitute the clearance, depending on the case.