Evidence of meeting #58 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Before a new criminal charge appears in the database, however, it can take a number of months for you to receive the information.
11:40 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
No.
We check that database every day for every name, all 169,000. That's why we're proactively checking every day.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
I am clear on the principle.
The ICAO has also called for stronger measures. It now requires non-passengers to go through a CATSA screening point before they enter a restricted area of the airport. Are all employees required to go into that restricted area or do they go there randomly?
11:40 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
We have a system that is risk-based. What has been implemented is a random, risk-based approach, which varies and so is not predictable by the employees. We don't usually publish the percentages and numbers, but this is a well-developed, well-thought-out, analyzed process to implement this requirement.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
So I understand that not all employees are systematically assessed or screened. Is there a mechanism to automatically adjust security standards depending on the risk level?
11:40 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
That's a very good question, Madam Chair.
If I think about the level of risk of the individual person, we generally treat it as systemic. We look at the background check and the physical screening together. That's why we have this risk-based approach to who should be screened. In effect, then, yes.
We've done a lot of work to say what the relative risk is. Take, for example, the security director at the airport. Is it necessary to screen them every time they go in and out, five or six times a day?
That's part of what's built into the randomness. There are levels of risk built into it, but in general once someone has access to the system, we try not to micromanage that element. It is, however, built into the system.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
My next question is for you, Mr. Oliver.
In your introductory remarks, you said that, in 2009, the RCMP and Transport Canada signed a memorandum of understanding to improve information sharing. In my opinion, an MOU is really a way of doing things. Is it just an MOU? What were the problems before and what has been improved as a result of the MOU?
11:40 a.m.
A/Commr Joe Oliver
Thank you for the question.
I will answer in English, if I may.
11:40 a.m.
A/Commr Joe Oliver
Prior to the enhanced protocol or MOU that we signed with Transport Canada, Transport Canada did have access to limited databases. Through the 2009 MOU we agreed with a funded initiative that provided previously unavailable access to databases. So it's more comprehensive searches compared to what we were doing from 2004 to 2009.
This provided a greater access to information that would help Transport in its decision-making. For example, previously we probably checked about two databases, based on various risk factors. Today we check no fewer than five, and if there's any adverse information, we go deeper into additional databases. That's the enhancement.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
I was also a bit surprised when you said that the RCMP could not make recommendations to Transport Canada with regard to withdrawing a certificate or not.
Is that correct?
11:45 a.m.
A/Commr Joe Oliver
The RCMP will provide advice on, for instance...certain behaviours may be criminal behaviour. The RCMP will provide advice on what that behaviour may indicate but ultimately decision-making comes down to the Minister of Transport who has the authority to issue, revoke, or suspend.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, everybody.
CSIS and the RCMP, I am a little surprised that you have what appears to be to the average person a fairly passive role in doing the assessment and then just passing on the results to Transport Canada. I hate to stick you with a what-if question but I will.
What if you identify a bad actor, someone you think is a person who represents a risk but subsequently you learn that they have been granted clearance anyway. Do you have a mechanism to flag that? Raise it? Do something about it?
Starting with you, Mr. Rumig.
11:45 a.m.
Assistant Director, Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
The answer is yes, we do. As I indicated in my opening comment, when new information is surfaced by Transport Canada or by ourselves or by law enforcement partners, we collectively mobilize very quickly to ensure that we have the best analysis and the best assessment of what that potential risk may be, whether it's a national security risk or a criminal risk in the confines of the RCMP's responsibility.
In mobilizing on that very quickly, there is a mechanism in place, an obligation in place, that we share information with the authorities, in this case, Transport Canada.
Going back to your specific question, if information does surface that would suggest to us that there's someone in the airport with a valid security clearance whom we now suspect may pose a concern, we mobilize on that very quickly. We reach out to Transport Canada.
We address our concerns to them, and then as Assistant Commissioner Oliver indicated earlier, a fused assessment process comes into play to determine what the next step should be. In this particular instance, the hypothetical instance you suggested, it could mean the immediate outcome is the individual's clearance is revoked or, rather, suspended.
11:45 a.m.
Assistant Director, Operations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
By Transport Canada and then an investigation would ensue either by the RCMP or ourselves and often in tandem.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I want to talk about contractors because the issue in Montreal appeared to have centred around employees of a contractor.
Do you assess the contractors, their hiring processes, their own particular vetting process, and if you identify a contractor who seems to keep sourcing people who don't qualify for security clearance, do remedial steps take place by one of your organizations to deal with that contractor?
11:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I would suggest that's largely an airport role in the sense that the airports manage the provision of allowance to the employees. They come through the companies. They generally would have the contracts to do work around them. If something like that were to arise, it would be noted. It would be discussed and we would do something with it but normally that would be generally visible, most likely to the airports at a more immediate—
11:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Well, if it were to ever occur...I'm not aware that it's ever occurred. Perhaps it....
11:50 a.m.
Director, Corporate Safety and Security, Greater Toronto Airports Authority, and Chair of the Security Committee, Canadian Airports Council
I've never experienced a case where a particular contractor is hiring people who are continually denied or refused clearances. It's very much on an individual basis.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Who monitors the activities of people who have security clearance, with respect to photographs they may be taking, cellphone traffic in and out of sensitive areas, that sort of thing?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Corporate Safety and Security, Greater Toronto Airports Authority, and Chair of the Security Committee, Canadian Airports Council
That would be the airport security community. We have an airport security committee that is the RCMP, the police of jurisdiction, CSIS, CATSA, and Transport Canada.
We have a very robust security management system. You've probably heard of SMS, the safety management system. We have the same concept on the security side. We're responsible for developing security awareness training and full programs. We have a “see it, report it, prevent it” program, so the 49,000 employees are all responsible for tracking, reporting, and assessing any security risks, such as the taking of photographs or people in locations where they're not supposed to be.
We take that information, and if we do have any adverse information, we will provide that to Transport Canada and to the RCMP to say, “Here's what we've noticed.”
