Evidence of meeting #68 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was railways.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
Absolutely. I wouldn't argue with you for one moment.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
If we want to compete with what's coming across the ocean in the Pacific, how are we going to do it if we don't do this?
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
Several other countries and several other modes of transportation do provide real-time data. So, it's there and that's what we're competing with.
I always stress with our group that we have to think about competing internationally, not just globally and not just locally. We have to look at a larger perspective. I agree with you.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
You talked about what was missing, the minister's review of amendments, which had been there before. You're saying it is absent this time.
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
I'm sorry, are you speaking about investigative abilities, those types of things?
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
No, I'm talking about the review of the amendments, which you mentioned as being absent.
2:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
Okay.
2:50 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
I can address that.
In 1996, when the CTA first came in, there was a provision requiring a mandatory review of the act within a certain amount of time. I can't recall exactly what that time frame was, but subsequent to that, whenever major amendments to the act were made, that was updated. So there was another deadline set for a review of how the act was working.
This time around, there seem to be some very widely diverging views, particularly on the long-haul interswitching. We feel that it is not going to be terribly useful to our members. The railways are apparently very concerned about it. There might be some shippers who will use it. We think it would be very useful to policy-makers to see who is using it, if anybody, how it's working, and—
2:50 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
It's not there.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Do you know if it was used in the past and if corrections were maybe made then, or anything in the past when this process was there?
2:50 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
The latest review that Mr. Emerson conducted was one of those reviews. He's recommending something more ongoing and evergreening, but at a minimum we think there should be a requirement or commitment for this act to be reviewed again, to see how it's actually working, if at all.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I want to talk about the CTA's decision cycle. Mr. Montpetit mentioned, or perhaps it was you, Ms. Stuhldreier, that the time it takes to get a decision out of the CTA on an issue could result in some bad outcomes for the shipper. Do you have an example of how a CTA delay created an adverse result?
2:55 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
There are always many factors playing into things. There are certainly examples in the past of a shipper who went on a number of occasions to complain to the agency about the service it was getting and whether it was getting a sufficient number of cars to move, I believe it was, specialty crops from Saskatchewan. Each one of those went through the full process, and ultimately that shipper did not stay in business. There were probably lots of factors contributing to that.
While the process is going on, which takes a few months, you might end up in a situation where the railway beefs up what it's doing because it's under scrutiny, but you might also end up in a situation where there are multiple origin destination pairs. It all depends on the shipper. There are lots of things that can go wrong and negatively affect the shipper's ability to get its goods to market.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Similarly, you mentioned examples or situations where, because of the non-competitive nature that has been portrayed to us between the two railways in Canada, there have been large increases in shipping costs. Can you give me an egregious example of huge increase in prices because of non-competition?
2:55 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
For obvious reasons, I can't mention any names. Let me think how I'll put this.
It would not be out of the realm of the possible for a railway with market power to say to a shipper, “You can either have a five-year contract with increases of 15%, 15%, 5%, 9%, or something in that range, or you can ship without a contract and we're going to ding you 50% from one year to the next.”
2:55 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
Yes, it has happened.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
2:55 p.m.
Senior Legal Advisor, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
I am sorry, but I cannot disclose those.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay, then, let's talk about the long-haul interswitching. On the surface it would seem that not only are we opening it up to greater distances, we're also opening it up to more customers who could potentially make use of it.
What I've heard is that, because they have to go to the nearest competing line, you could end up sending your goods in the wrong direction, or sending them to a line that's going to the wrong place, or sending goods to a nearby point that may not have the capacity. These are three issues I heard.
In that situation, though, could you really define that as a competing option if it's simply not working? I'm just wondering if the subjective definition of the word “competing” might be tangling us up here. That doesn't sound like a competing option to me.
2:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition
It's not.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
So the competing option may in fact be the one that exactly fits the bill even though it's not the closest. All right.
I have one other question here—on data. You mentioned that Canadian operators in the U.S. have different data requirements, which they are able to meet within much tighter time periods than are being anticipated here. We know they can do it.
Are there other things that Canadian operators are required to do in the States that they are not doing here but that you would like to see them do in Canada?
