Evidence of meeting #7 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rail.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
Oh, municipalities and community groups, as well. Sorry.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
So you would like us to also hear from emergency services basically, which quite frankly are run by municipalities, whether it be chiefs of police, emergency services such as ambulance and fire departments, and haz-mat groups, people like that—
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
And public interest groups. Who would you say are part of public interest groups?
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
The best thing is to look at the list of people on the advisory council to the transportation minister on the transportation of dangerous goods. They're all people who are very aware of moving dangerous goods. We've dealt with all of the issues around Lac-Mégantic, trains, and trails. I think it's Ernie Wong. I'm not sure of his last name, but I'll get it for you.
Public interest should be here too. It's not just a matter of the experts, but the public should be here as well.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
You also mentioned, and I believe all the presenters mentioned, the fact of past reports. I think the former minister mentioned it with respect to the order, I guess, for lack of a better word, that she presented to Transport Canada and the committee. Then it stopped. There was no further action.
When you talk about the consistency between what exists today with trucking, road, with air—and by the way, I think air still has some more to do, because a lot of the recommendations weren't implemented—
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
—that can very well be a next discussion for this committee to get our teeth into. With that being said, in your opinion, why isn't it consistent? I don't see any consistency here with trucks, air, or rail: fatigue is fatigue.
I'm taken aback by the inconsistency here with respect to the regulations and protocols.
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
I'll be blunt about it.
The rail people come here and say they built the country. Just so you know, I'm very proud that the Teamsters are, I think, 108 years old now. Sitting beside me, their organization predates Confederation. They built the country too, because they were operating the trains.
You can talk about the rail barons. They come up here. We thought we had something done. We had a unanimous vote of Parliament to deal with fatigue in 2011, and not a darn thing.... I bet you if we followed the trail of the RAC and the lobbies up to the PMO's office, I'm pretty sure you'll find out they said they didn't want it because it would be inconvenient and would cost them money.
I think it's sad that a small group can have that much power to say they just don't want it, so it's not going to happen. The science is there. I think there's the will in Transport Canada to get it done. There's the will of the parliaments to get it done. We'd like to get it done, and it just hasn't been done. It was not just once: there were four times over these last 15 years when I know I had the House and Senate 100% by a voice vote on our side. I know that later we had the minister onside, and it just died.
This is very frustrating, because the issue doesn't go away. People are being hurt. People are getting sick. It is costing health care money. It's just darn wrong, and I think it's time to act. Mr. Sikand last time asked a question of the bureaucrats who came. He said, fix it. Why isn't it fixed? They keep coming here and saying why isn't it fixed? That's the only answer we have.
National Rail Director, Unifor
I have a very short comment. When I look at fatigue management, I also want to look at freight car safety regulations and other things like that, where there's almost a similar dynamic at play.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
If I can jump in here, I'll prompt you—or Mr. Arseneau, for that matter—on something else, too, with respect to where I think you're going. Is it also the maintenance and the consistency of maintenance?
National Rail Director, Unifor
When it comes to freight car safety maintenance, we can look at how it's different. In the airline industry, when an airline mechanic says, “This plane ain't leaving, because the bearings are bad on that nose wheel”, do you want to know what happens? It doesn't leave. And do you know what happens when they say they have to change planes? Everybody says, “All right.” When they say the bearing on the nose wheel is worn out, everybody says, “Okay”. In the rail industry, we could have a front-line supervisor who worked yesterday at a 7-Eleven but is now my supervisor and has powers under the freight car safety act to overturn my decision to say that a freight car is unsafe to move.
When it comes to the maintenance issues, thankfully we haven't seen too much causes of derailments related to maintenance of the locomotives and the freight cars, but I think we'll see more and more of them. The railways are relying so much on technology—on hot wheel detectors, on cold wheel detectors, on pounding or wayside detectors—but I think there is nothing better than a mechanic as opposed to somebody else looking at a freight car.
Coordinator, Montréal, United Steelworkers
I am going to answer this part of the question.
People say that the accidents did not happen because of maintenance, but it is completely the opposite in the Lac-Mégantic case. Remember that the engine that caught fire had been modified because it was leaking oil, and one part had been replaced by a wrong one, as I explained earlier, because they wanted to save time and money. So maintenance is the important element in avoiding accidents. I totally agree with the comment that the plane will not take off, but in many cases the train, especially in the case of small businesses, will travel anyway, at any cost. Of course, CN and CP have the means to have inspectors so that when there are accidents, people will go on site, but smaller businesses are left to their own devices. If in addition there is deregulation, clearly there are going to be some serious maintenance problems.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much, Mr. Arseneau.
Mr. Badawey, your time is up.
Ms. Watts, you have six minutes.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your coming. There are two items I want to touch on. One is around the inspectors. From what I heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are no inspectors being hired at this point in time. Is that correct?
National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees
That is correct.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
And there is a staffing freeze currently in place?
National President, Union of Canadian Transportation Employees
That is correct. The staffing freeze is in place because Transport Canada used operational dollars over the last two years to meet their salary dollars. Treasury Board has instructed them to go back and meet the salary envelope. That's the situation.
The deputy minister has sent out correspondence pretty much to that effect. Treasury Board has put a financial person in at Transport to ensure they get their salary dollars down to the level they're allotted.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Right. Then within the budget there has been a decrease, as you've stated, of 21%.
I want to talk about the impact of not having those inspectors. We've had conversations...and as a former mayor of a community where dangerous goods have gone through the community, I want to bring those pieces together.
I appreciate your comments around the unannounced inspections and having regular inspections as well, because I would agree, when you're self-regulating, a lot of things can happen. But in terms of that, what does it look like on the ground?