Transport Committee on Oct. 19th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to go back to that triple bottom line. We've talked a lot about the environment today, but I want to get into the economic side a bit and the social side, vis-à-vis jobs.

This has been the status quo throughout the past many years, since 1985, and now we're just sort of solidifying it through the moratorium. There's a lot of traffic I'm sure that can't go there anymore to bring the oil, which goes to other ports. Has there been, or can there be, a shift or a balance to return to this area some of the traffic or expanded traffic from those other areas so that this area could balance out that economy?

[Natasha Rascanin]

Certainly I will echo what the minister said. There is a lot of work with the Port of Prince Rupert. We are enhancing and working to allow for shipping, not for the products that are not permitted under the moratorium but for a variety of other products that are supporting the economy.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Let's attach a “how” to that, and how we can do that.

The minister, as I'm sure you recognize, is now embarking on a transportation strategy for the entire country, and with that has established trade corridors or a process that is going to establish and recommend those trade corridors nationally.

Do you think it would be prudent, upon that process, to then—I won't say force, I'll just say facilitate—facilitate a dialogue among Prince Rupert, Vancouver, and other ports on the west coast, a process that would otherwise identify strengthened areas for added economy when it comes to who should be doing what versus relying on them to do it? You know just as well as I do, competition is competition is competition.

With that, would it be prudent for us through that process—through the establishment of that strategy—to actually facilitate that so we can get that economic balance across the west coast?

[Natasha Rascanin]

I believe those dialogues are going on, as is a lot of the work that happens in terms of transportation corridors and having an efficient and safe transportation system. If there are any places where there are blockages or inefficiencies for whatever reason, a lot of conversations go on to identify and work through them in a collaborative manner.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I will just make a comment before I punt it over to my colleague, Mr. Hardie. The advantage to that is not only for the areas individually, in terms of the economy and social aspects. Equally, if not more important, is emphasizing the need to have the customer recognize those strengthened areas and any advantages they would have of doing business in those areas if, in fact, that distribution and logistics network is more formalized.

When you go out there and you're trying to work with three separate versus one individual, if it already had it established, it would be much easier for the customer as well.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Some indigenous groups were in support of not having a moratorium. In other words, they were against having a moratorium, and we'll speak with some of them in the course of our deliberations. Is it fair to say their interests are primarily financial and economic? Would that be safe to say?

[Natasha Rascanin]

I wouldn't wish to presume to interpret their interests. From the kind of messaging we heard, all groups were very interested in environmental protections and economic opportunities.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Perhaps out of fairness we should have asked all of you what band of this issue you actually were more directly engaged with, rather than asking you questions that, really, you find very difficult to answer.

What part of the proposed legislation were you actually doing the deeper dive into, as officials?

[Natasha Rascanin]

We certainly talked about the principles and the approach to working through this moratorium. I think it was clear. We got lots of feedback, as the minister indicated. There were various indigenous groups, environmental and non-governmental organizations, the oil and gas industry, stakeholders of other kinds, and Canadians generally. We had a website as well, so we engaged on a whole lot of parameters, quite broadly.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

You spoke to producers as well as shippers and people who live in the area.

[Natasha Rascanin]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hardie.

We're going to try to make sure we get Mr. Falk and Mr. Cannings in before we have to deal with some other issues.

Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Ms. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming.

How long has this voluntary moratorium been in place?

[Natasha Rascanin]

It was established in 1985.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, so that's for 32 years, roughly.

You indicated before that you didn't know how many inspectors you have on the coast, but I'm presuming there are Transport Canada inspectors who ensure compliance with the moratorium. Have there been any infractions in the last 32 years?

[Natasha Rascanin]

There have not, not of laden tankers. There have been a couple of instances of empty tankers going within, but that is permitted.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Right, so there were really no infractions. Doesn't it seem like this is a solution looking for a problem?

[Natasha Rascanin]

This is an additional protection that the government has chosen to put in place.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

It just seems like a lot of energy and effort expended on something that isn't an issue.

That's it. That's the only question I had.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'd just like to follow up on that, maybe from the other side, and forgive me again, I'm new to this and haven't heard any other testimony. You say there's this voluntary exclusion area outside of Haida Gwaii.

Even if it has been working for umpteen years, I'm just wondering, is there a reason why it wasn't included in Bill C-48 because it sounds like this is something on top of that voluntary exclusion?

[Natasha Rascanin]

That's right. The moratorium is an additional protection. The government made a commitment to formalize a moratorium and this is the delivery of that commitment.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Right, but the voluntary exclusion of big tankers coming down that coast, or the big tankers going up, that's not part of Bill C-48?

[Natasha Rascanin]

That's a mechanism that is complementary to the moratorium.