Transport Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2017

[The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)), Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call the meeting to order of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, October 4, 2017, we are studying Bill C-48, an act respecting the regulation of vessels that transport crude oil or persistent oil to or from ports or marine installations located along British Columbia's north coast.

Welcome to our committee, members and witnesses. We would like to start off with the Aboriginal Equity Partners, Mr. Dale Swampy, coordinator, and Mr. Elmer Ghostkeeper, steward. We also have from the Lax Kw'alaams Band, John Helin, the mayor.

Whoever would like to start off, you have five minutes. I'll try raising my hand when you're getting close to that time. If you can get your comments in within that time, we'd appreciate it so that the members can ask their questions.

[Dale Swampy, Coordinator, Aboriginal Equity Partners]

Thank you.

I'll start, if that's okay. My name is Dale Swampy. I'm from the Samson Cree Nation. I'd like to thank the government officials for inviting us here, and for the Algonquin territory that we're having this meeting on. I respect their land and their traditional rights to this area. I'd like to welcome the chiefs who are here today, as well as council members and community members from indigenous communities in B.C. and Alberta.

The Aboriginal Equity Partners were formed in 2013 as a group of supportive communities for the northern gateway project. We eventually accumulated 31 of the 52 first nations that were offered equity on the pipeline. The 31 first nations included first nation chiefs and Métis leaders—18 first nation and Métis communities in Alberta and 13 first nation and Métis communities in B.C. As coordinator, I was chosen to lead the group in their meetings, structure, and negotiations about northern gateway. I was also the manager of the terrestrial region for B.C., so the 13 communities that joined us in B.C. were members of my group of responsibility for consultation on the northern gateway project.

Our role is to protect the traditional way of life and environment, both along the pipeline and in marine operations, while ensuring our people in communities benefit from long-term economic benefits and jobs. Collectively, first nations and Métis communities stood to benefit by more than $2 billion directly from the project, including $600 million in revenues as owners of the northern gateway project. A lot of the ownership was an investment that was carried by the funding partners, who were the oil and gas producers in western Canada.

Before the project was cancelled by Prime Minister Trudeau, the equity partners represented by the four stewards—one of whom is here, Elmer Ghostkeeper—were in the process of negotiating for one-third ownership of the pipeline, up from the 10% they originally had with the northern gateway group.

The AEP had a governance structure, basically, with the four stewards being elected from the 31 leaders. An AEP steward sat on northern gateway's management committee, which represents the ownership groups and has members from Enbridge and the project proponents, which were the oil and gas producers.

On May 3, 2016, we had an AEP all-leaders gathering in Vancouver, where the Assembly of First Nations National Chief Perry Bellegarde attended and spoke. The AEP had senior-level meetings with the Government of Canada, British Columbia, and Alberta. We were working collaboratively with governments on all critical Canadian infrastructure issues regarding the economy, the oil going to tidewater, and access to new markets overseas.

The AEP stewards met with Hon. Marc Garneau, federal Minister of Transport, in January 2016 and vigorously communicated our position that we expect to be consulted on the proposed B.C. coast crude oil tanker ban under section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which ensures the duty to consult and our inescapable economic interests.

In February 2016, we launched our website, www.aepowners.ca, and our Facebook site.

We are here to oppose the tanker ban. We have worked hard and diligently. Our 31 first nation chiefs and Métis leaders invested a lot of time and resources to negotiate with northern gateway with the prospect of being able to benefit from the project, to be able to get our communities out of poverty. There are no current major projects going on in northern B.C. A lot of our mining has now deteriorated and been closed down. We don't see any real prospect in the future, other than what we can do if we re-engage with northern gateway and the pipeline.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Swampy.

We'll go on to Mr. Ghostkeeper.

[Elmer Ghostkeeper, Steward, Aboriginal Equity Partners]

[Witness speaks in Cree]

I'd like to acknowledge that we are on unceded Algonquin territory and also say hello to elected chiefs, elders, and elected representatives of Canada, members of Parliament.

We are here today to tell you that Aboriginal Equity Partners was denied the honour and duty of the crown to be consulted and to exercise its inescapable economic rights under section 35 of the Canadian Constitution. This consultation must take place before this bill can be implemented.

The Aboriginal Equity Partners' main role was to protect our traditional way of life and the environment, both along the northern gateway pipeline corridor and in marine operations, while also ensuring our people and communities benefited from this long-term economic opportunity.

We were in the process of negotiating a third ownership of this project and looking at it to be majority-owned by the 31 Aboriginal Equity Partners, and it would be the first Canadian-owned megaproject to be owned, managed, and operated by indigenous people. We were denied that right.

In November of 2016, the Prime Minister announced, without any consultation with any of our communities, the dismissal of the application for northern gateway, after it had already been approved two and a half years earlier. We were profoundly shocked and disappointed.

Some communities invested their own money in businesses to support construction. Individuals went back to school to train for jobs on the project that would allow them to stay in their own communities. Many leaders who invested time to make the project better had their efforts wasted, including my colleague steward, the late Grand Chief Elmer Derrick, who passed away this September.

Likewise, the AEP communities were never consulted on the tanker moratorium. In a September 7, 2016, meeting with Minister Garneau, and again in a September 30, 2017, letter to him, the stewards carried the assertions from the AEP communities that their economic rights under section 35 had been negatively affected by a tanker moratorium. As you know, many of our indigenous communities suffer from a high rate of poverty and its associated ills.

We carried the message that the communities needed to be consulted, as they were the inherent rights bearers, and that we stewards had no authority to represent them on their rights. We offered to help the minister to facilitate meeting communities, either individually or collectively. We never received a response to our verbal or written request to be consulted. We only received a letter notifying us that the federal government had decided to move ahead with the moratorium that would kill all our work and opportunities.

We must be consulted before this bill is implemented.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have about 45 seconds.

[Elmer Ghostkeeper]

Therefore, I'll end by saying that we strongly recommend that this parliamentary committee ensure that Transport Canada uphold the crown's constitutional obligations and the government's own stated principles and undertake deep consultation with our communities before implementing Bill C-48. We believe that, by working in partnership, we can enhance protection for the beautiful B.C. north coast area, while also allowing a viable aboriginal-led oil transport project that will benefit all Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, sir.

We'll move on to Mr. Helin for five minutes, please.

[John Helin, Mayor, Lax Kw'alaams Band]

[Witness speaks in Tsimshian]

I'd like to thank you today for allowing me to speak before you. I'd like to acknowledge the traditional territory of the Algonquin people, on whose territory we're meeting today.

Like many first nations in Canada, Lax Kw'alaams is on the north coast of B.C. We're one of the biggest bands in B.C. We have over 3,800 members. We have nine tribes, and we've been living in that place for thousands of years. We have lived off the sea and the forests and everything around us, so it's in our best interest to look after the environment. In any proposed project that comes along, we work with the necessary people to ensure that we look after the environment.

As many of you probably know, the decision to cancel the PNW LNG project, which was just cancelled, was taken with a lot of regret by members of not just my community but all along that route, because our people are starving. In my community my members have to decide between paying a hydro bill or putting food on the table. That's the reality in a place like Canada. That was hard for them to take, because we had negotiated a good agreement with that project and that's not going to happen.

If you look at where our community is situated, right next to the Alaska border, that's probably the best port on the west coast of North America right now for development. It's the closest to Asia. It's a deepwater port, and it makes sense that at some point it's going to be developed.

Look at what's happening in Canada, where heavy oil is allowed to leave Vancouver harbour, a beautiful place like that, and it's going off the east coast. It's all over Canada right now. There are barges going to Haida Gwaii with diesel oil, all types of oil. There are tankers going down the west coast of Haida Gwaii from Alaska. What we're asking is, what is consultation? It has to be meaningful. It can't be a blanket moratorium.

If you look at our traditional territory and the Great Bear Rainforest, that was established without consultation with members from my community. The picture that was taken when they announced that, it was NGOs from America standing there trumpeting that accomplishment. We can't let people from outside our communities, NGOs and well-funded organizations that are against oil and gas or whatever they're against come in and dictate in our territories what we should and should not do.

We've been living here for thousands of years and we wouldn't compromise the environment. That's the most important thing to us. Salmon is right at our doorstep, all the sea resources. We have a fish plant in our community that, at its peak, will employ over 100 people. Our challenge is that because of DFO regulations and regulations controlled by Ottawa, we can't access quotas to put our people to work. That's what they love, being on the water. We have 60 or 70 gillnetters tied to our dock that can't afford gas to go out and fish. That's the reality, so we have to look at diversifying our economies and look at proposed projects that come along that make sense, and look after the environment while we're doing that.

Again, you look across Canada at the state of first nations communities. The third-world conditions in a lot of those communities are deplorable. I have one of the biggest communities in B.C. We haven't had new housing from the federal government in 15 years. Those are the challenges I have to face when I go to my membership.

All the ills that Elmer talks about, the social ills, the health, the education, how do we fund those? If we can negotiate with proposed projects like we had with the PNW project, that would have gone a long a way to our addressing some of those issues with the resources necessary to do so.

We look forward to working with whoever we have to make these things work as long as we can look after the environment. It's not good enough for a government to say, we're going to put a moratorium in place in your territory, without meaningful consultation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Helin.

Now we'll go to our members and Ms. Block for six minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to welcome our guests here today. I have appreciated your testimony.

Mr. Swampy, you spoke about the investments made by the businesses within your community as well as the revenues that were expected to come from the northern gateway project. I'm wondering if you would just expand on what other benefits the Aboriginal Equity Partners were looking forward to as a result of that project.

[Dale Swampy]

We had an agreement with the northern gateway funding partners, of which there were 10, to allow us to participate in one billion dollars' worth of direct awards and set-asides for construction. When that opportunity was presented a lot of the first nations got together and developed JV partners. Some got together with other first nations to develop partnerships and spent money, and time and resources, in order to qualify their companies for this action, which was $1 billion but not limited to $1 billion. They were able to bid on any work over and above that.

There is a $300-million community investment fund that the AEP group, including the stewards, would manage throughout the 30 years that the project would be in operations. This community investment fund would be used to fund different types of community investment projects: arenas, band buildings, schools, and so forth. It was based on a certain percentage of the revenue that's going to be received from the project throughout the 30 years.

There was training and job employment funding that included special consideration. We know that a lot of the community members would have difficulty in transitioning into a job environment so we developed a life skills program, which included hired members from all of the communities, to be able to train the people in being able to keep their jobs, to give them life skills so they can manage their transportation to and from the jobs, and then a group that was going to be formed by the AP, which would be a job employment services company that would place the employment into future projects either in northern B.C. or outside the communities.

There's also funding for specific initiatives that were developed as part of negotiations to the communities relating to other larger types of community investment projects that were included in the $2-billion package. Then during the year of 2016, the AEP stewards were in negotiations with the funding partners to increase their proposed revenue from the 10% owners' equity to thirty-three and a third, one-third of ownership in the company, as well.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

I'm wondering if you could just tell us if there are any future economic opportunities that would reasonably compare to the economic benefits that would have accrued to your members from this particular project.

[Dale Swampy]

We don't see any project that has given this type of opportunity. This project would have been unprecedented in the fact that the first nations would be owners of the project. As one-third owners they would take on both the benefits and the risks of this pipeline as part of the project's operations. The 31 communities would also have what they call the aboriginal environmental protection group, which would monitor the pipe on a 24-7 basis and commit themselves to protecting the environment around them to ensure that there was early warning if there was a spill of any sort.

It's unprecedented because the first 10% was a carried interest, which meant that the communities did not have to go out and get their investment monies in order to own 10%. The companies were ready to give them 10% equity in the program as part of the cost of doing business and out of respect to the first nation communities since it was a greenfield project and they were going through traditional territories that were not subjected to any type of development in the past or in the present. There was extra consideration for that.

The negotiations for thirty-three and a third per cent that were coming up were partly like that. It was a consideration of either carrying interest, or giving the communities the opportunity to gather their own investment monies.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I have one really quick question. Implementing this tanker moratorium was in the mandate letter that was given to the Minister of Transport right after he was appointed, so I'm just wondering if the Liberal Party, or any officials from the 2015 Liberal campaign, consulted with any of your communities prior to making this a campaign promise.

[Dale Swampy]

No. We were consulted after all the announcements and the mandate letter sent to Minister Garneau by Transport Canada. We expressed in those two meetings we had with Transport Canada, that consultation needed to be done individually with all 31 first nations that we represented as the Aboriginal Equity Partners group.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Swampy.

We'll move on to Mr. Hardie, for six minutes.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

I've lived up in that part of the world. It's quite spectacular in the Smithers through Prince Rupert area.

John, before you get away I'd like to grab your card, because you brought up the owner-operator issue. I'm on the fisheries and oceans committee, and I have a problem there too, so I'd like to talk to you about that.

Mr. Ghostkeeper, in the absence of the kind of consultation that you felt was suitable under the circumstances, can you briefly hit the high points, the key things, you would have told the government had you been consulted.

[Elmer Ghostkeeper]

I sat around the constitutional table from 1980 to 1982 as a young Métis leader from Alberta. Alberta is the only province in all of Canada with Métis land. We have our own provincial legislation called the Métis Settlements Act.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Ghostkeeper, could you keep it relatively brief because I only have so much time?

[Elmer Ghostkeeper]

I wanted to give you a backgrounder to show you that I'm familiar with section 35 as much as anybody.

Consultation has to take place within the context of the community that's being consulted, to take in their language, their culture, their lifestyle, the economic impacts, etc. It's based on their traditional land use, their prior occupation, use, and ownership that has existed for thousands of years.

As I recall, the National Energy Board's licence restricted that phase four consultation to be redone by the federal government on the west coast communities especially.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What I need to understand is what advice would you have given to government on how to proceed, given that we didn't have universal acceptance and agreement with this pipeline across that whole stretch of northern B.C.

[Elmer Ghostkeeper]

I think I stated in my opening remarks that I cannot speak on behalf of each individual community that requested consultation. That's their inherent right. As a steward, I respect that. I'm not going to say this is what should have been highlighted or not. That's for them to say.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Okay.

Mr. Swampy, did you want to add something?

[Dale Swampy]

I think it's important for the group. We wanted them to consult the 31 communities to express the point of view that the majority of the communities along the right-of-way approved and supported the project, and that the disinformation that you get from environmental websites and people Trudeau met on the west coast is wrong.

There is a lot of support for this pipe because it was going to bring economic development to the first nations who needed it, who were in poverty. Hundreds of young first nations men and women wanted work, and they were looking forward to this type of work. We wanted to prove to the government that when they say they're doing this because the first nations do not want this, it's a lie. The majority of first nations want it.

The only thing they're listening to is the loudest person out there, who is supported by environmentalists and the NGOs. The only problem we had was that we weren't so vocal. We didn't want to get into that type of back and forth. We wanted to have the government meet with these individual communities so that they would be assured they had proper support for this project.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The question then comes up, John, that the products that would not be allowed to be loaded onto tankers are pretty toxic to the environment that you folks honour and have respected and guarded for millennia, but there are other products that would be allowed.

Are there still opportunities to see the type of development that you were hoping for through the building of this delivery system, which was the pipeline?