Transport Committee on Nov. 7th, 2017

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Phillip, I'm going to allow you the opportunity to continue, based on some comments and questions I'm going to start off with.

Also, Danielle, we haven't forgotten about you on the phone either, so any time you want to pipe in, by all means, feel free, if you're still there.

As I alluded to earlier on with the witnesses prior to you folks coming on board, there's no question that this government has been very proactive with consultations. We just went through a tax fairness process since late July. On that consultation process, we had the opportunity to really amend a lot of the recommendations that were being looked at and made based on the consultations and discussions we were having, especially with the business community.

That said, just last evening I met Minister Bennett and talked about the very issue Mr. Fraser was talking about earlier, which is how to discuss these issues nation-to-nation-to-nation, so that we're all in the loop, so to speak. Also, as I mentioned earlier on, it's not just about truth and reconciliation. It's about truth, reconciliation, and resurgence, and where we are going to be going in the future, nation-to-nation-to-nation.

Going from the discussion Mr. Hardie just left, then, with respect to that consultation in furthering the development of economy, we need to ensure we're in constant dialogue to really take your strategy and the objectives that your strategy identifies and attach action plans to them. Of course, we also need the ability to execute those action plans moving well into the future.

With that, Mr. Phillip, I want you to continue—and I'm going to ask the others to jump in as well—to give us more input, based on the consultation we're having today, on how we can actually do that. We all know what we can do and what we want to do, but we all want to now attach the “how” to that, and that's what I need from you folks. Beyond that—again, if the opposition will allow us, unlike last year—we can also possibly in the future make a trip and meet eye-to-eye and face-to-face to further those consultations. I'll throw that out on the floor to you to give us that input.

[Grand Chief Stewart Phillip]

Well, again, just for the sake of the committee, I've been blessed with 15 grandchildren.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

God bless you.

[Grand Chief Stewart Phillip]

Quite often when we're going somewhere, the grandchildren are in the back seat asking if we're there yet. I tell them, no, we're not there yet. That's very much a metaphor for where we are in this country and in this province.

We have an opportunity, I would suggest, with the Government of Canada and the Province of British Columbia, with the incoming Horgan government, to make progress on these issues. Again, we have a short window to get down to the work. I would go back to the law and policy review, to the UN declaration, to the commitments from the Prime Minister on the nation-to-nation relationship. Our organizations, our indigenous communities, are responding and working very diligently for better ways and means of collaborating to come up with a better process.

Last year in British Columbia, as you well know, was the worst wildfire season on record. But when you're in the middle of a crisis like that, it brings people together. We know and understand that we have a very serious duty and obligation to get down to work and resolve these issues in order to better caretake the land and the safety and well-being of all people here within British Columbia and across this country. But we have to get off the proverbial pot, so to speak, engage on the issues, and bring about the change that everybody is so reluctant to do for fear of some critique.

I would go back to the solidarity between indigenous and non-indigenous peoples. There's a reason for that: things didn't work in the very brittle, rigid, structured way of the past. I think we're moving in the right direction. We just have to know and understand that there's great urgency attached to this.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Absolutely.

Mr. Hill.

[Cameron Hill]

I'd just like to reiterate what Grand Chief Phillip stated. I think we are moving in the right direction. Take this very moment, this very day: I'm able to connect with a parliamentary committee through the Internet, which I've never done before. I've never been a part of that. To me, that is a step in the right direction.

Perhaps I could talk a little bit to what British Columbia has tried to do. I believe it's been a couple of years now, if not more, since a couple of days entirely would be taken out of a parliamentary session in which the cabinet ministers would sit down with first nations leaders from all across B.C. and have good, meaningful dialogue about all issues. I think if we're committed to making that happen....

Believe you me, I can tell when somebody is just there giving me lip service. If I'm not feeling trustworthy about the people I'm in the room with, I make sure I voice that opinion. On the other hand, when we really feel like we're being listened to and our concerns are being brought to the forefront, we'll be that much more honest and we'll bring forward how we think this will work in terms of working together to achieve whatever goal it is.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

We look forward to working with that relationship.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for their testimony. It's been very interesting in the last couple of meetings to hear from aboriginal groups about their concerns and support, or non-support, for this particular legislation.

I want to clarify, Madam Chair, that I do not consider these to be consultations, in the sense of consultations and accommodation required under section 35 of the Constitution and under decisions of the Supreme Court and other courts of this land. This is a legislative committee made up of members of Parliament who are not part of the government. We are not part of the executive branch of government, and we certainly do not represent the crown here. The duty to consult and accommodate with aboriginal peoples rests with the crown, in particular the Governor in Council, the cabinet, the Prime Minister, and the Government of Canada. Since we do not represent the Government of Canada or the crown, I don't see these as consultations as required under Canadian law.

I wanted to clarify that, to make sure that the government understands that they can't hijack this process because they have avoided their responsibility to consult and accommodate with aboriginal peoples as part of Bill C-48. I make that point before I ask the witnesses further questions.

It was interesting to hear the testimony in the last two meetings. We had first nations witnesses who came before us at the last meeting indicating that they were against Bill C-48, and our witnesses today are clearly in favour of it.

I want to take a step back from your particular positions on Bill C-48, and talk instead about the process that led to Bill C-48. I think that's where I and others have concerns. That concern centres around the duty on the part of the government, the crown, the cabinet, and the Government of Canada, to consult and accommodate with first nations bands up and down the B.C. coast, as well as those first nations bands that would be affected along the interior corridors where oil pipelines might be built.

I want to know what consultations, specific meetings, the government held before it introduced Bill C-48 on May 12, with each of your groups that were specific to federal legislation introducing this tanker ban?

[Cameron Hill]

To me, meaningful consultation would have been [Technical difficulty--Editor] in the community. We are a very busy community. I wasn't a part of any of the face-to-face consultations. I do believe that my elected chief, Chief Arnold Clifton—who sends his regrets that he wasn't able to be here—was a part of these processes, as were our consultative committees.

Having said that, the amount of information that could have or should have trickled down to us did make its way, but I think the way it happened could have been better. I need to take some ownership on that. I began talking about the busy lives that we all have, but, having said that, I think that being able to sit with one another face to face, however we go down that road to make that happen, would have been the best for us.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Hill. You're being very modest with your answer. At the end of the day, the Government of Canada has a responsibility to reach out to you to consult and accommodate your concerns before taking any action such as the introduction of a bill by a minister of the crown in the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

One second goes to Mr. Badawey before we close.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to state that, although the opposition may have left those who presented today with the impression that your discussion or comments didn't mean anything, this is, in fact, a part of what we're trying to do as this government with consultation, and it did, in fact, mean something.

I do look forward to continuing this relationship so we can bring resurgence to the entire truth and reconciliation file, working with you as partners versus trying to dictate to you as the previous government did.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much to our witnesses. We appreciate very much your taking your precious time to come here with us today.

[Grand Chief Stewart Phillip]

Excuse me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Chief, go ahead. I'm going to give you a minute there. I see you want to make a closing statement.

[Grand Chief Stewart Phillip]

I really appreciate that.

We've been involved in this battle in regard to consultation in the courts of this country for a very long time, and we understand the nuances of consultation, but as I recall, what was probably the most comprehensive consultation in the history of this country was the last federal election when the government of the day made it abundantly clear that, if they were elected, they were going to bring in a tanker ban. People voted in regard to that promise.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, too, to both of you and to Ms. Shaw, who I think is still on the teleconference.

This meeting is adjourned.