Transport Committee on Feb. 14th, 2018

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

I think so, and further to that, through access, research, and funding to monitor these oceans and these coastal lines for derelict ships, to have an emergency response team to react in those many areas that are quite isolated. Many of those isolated communities are first nations communities that have an opportunity to be the first responders to some of these vessels. Out here in the coast, I do believe there is a desire to do that, and to have response teams ready and willing to do some of these initiatives.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I understand that there's a specific program at they newly re-opened Kitsilano Coast Guard base that trains and enables first nations responders up and down the coast. Is this aspect of it covered by the training, do you know?

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

I'm not sure, I don't have data on that, but I do know some of the first nations, such as Heiltsuk, have put in requests to the federal and provincial government to become emergency response teams. I'm not sure where they get their training from, but with their experiences over the last few years with abandoned vessels, they do have the desire to become a response team.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Smith, I'll ask the same question that I asked of the previous panel given your municipal connection. First and foremost, who owns that lot next door with all of the derelict vessels? Is it a private owner?

[Rod Smith]

It`s a crown water lot at this point, owned by the province.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Got it, okay. This is a question I asked of the previous panel. Are there powers and permissions that you would like to see, right down to and including the municipal level, that would give you a bit more authority to deal with some of the issues? You mentioned the live-aboards. Are there others, and where would that delegation come from?

[Rod Smith]

It's difficult because we're not a harbour authority, so we don't have the resources. The town doesn't. We're a not-for-profit organization, so we don't have the resources or the authority. I don't actually think giving the town or a not-for-profit the designation of a harbour authority would do the job. There's still the problem of enforcement. I think the most significant thing that could be done in this bill, and my compliments to Minister Garneau, Ms. Jordan, and Ms. Malcolmson for getting us to this point. I think what makes the biggest difference now, given that this is still within federal jurisdiction, is registry and licensing. That's what we're talking about, a registry and licensing program going forward. Given that it's still within federal jurisdiction, put something in the bill now that would assign fees, some kind of funding mechanism, and negotiate with the provinces and communities later. Let's get this started. I believe there is money available for cleanup, as you probably heard earlier, from the ship-source oil pollution fund . So giving more power to a community that.... Ladysmith doesn't own a boat. When they want to go out and look at those vessels, they come to us and we take them out on the boat. We've gone out with the RCMP and tried to get people to leave but we don't have the authority.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Smith.

Mr. Hardie, your time is up.

On to Ms. Malcolmson.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair. To go back to the photos that the Ladysmith Maritime Society showed, I just want to strongly impress on the committee members that these boats showed up in Ladysmith when Port Metro Vancouver and Nanaimo Port Authority and Victoria did bylaw enforcement in their own areas. Then sometimes, when Ladysmith has done some extra bylaw enforcement or tried to find some resources, the problem got pushed out to Penelakut Island first nations reserve. This is where I've been calling and the Union of B.C. Municipalities has been calling for a comprehensive coast-wide solution, because it's not about giving local governments the ability to deal with the problem. The problem will just keep getting squeezed to the more remote regions. Is that a fair characterization of how Ladysmith got these votes, and of the authorities that you're hearing are being asked for in the community?

[Rod Smith]

I think back to my previous comment. It's a federal jurisdiction that needs to take control of this. We don't want to send them down to Chemainus or over to another community. It doesn't do anything for anybody.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The amount of the B.C. coastline that has a municipal authority within it is a tiny fraction, right? The chief would know that too.

I was really happy to hear encouragement from the Ladysmith Maritime Society for including in the legislation some of the models that we've seen in the Washington state abandoned vessel program, legislating that some of the fees from vessel registration go into an abandoned vessel response fund. In terms of legislating that we have a vessel turn-in program, which has been successfully done in Washington and Oregon, I think I heard you say you'd like to see that in Bill C-64 so that we're sure it goes forward. Is that fair to say?

[Rod Smith]

I think you have to, otherwise it could be another couple of years of negotiation between the province and the federal government, with no action.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That's also partly an accountability and transparency part. The commitment would last beyond the next election. That's something I've heard locally, and I believe you share that view.

[Rod Smith]

Again, I have great support for what's been done, but how do you report back on it? I don't see a mechanism for reporting back, but I assume that's coming.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I know you've been working pretty closely with some of the other marine operators in Washington state, and the fact that both the vessel turn-in program and the fee on vessel licensing are embedded within the Washington legislation is something you'd like to see emulated for the Canadian coast.

[Rod Smith]

One of the things that I think it would help is with the squatters. There are 50 or so vessels, maybe 20 or so squatters. You can fine them, but it's not going to do anything. While they at least have control of their vessels, even if they're not theirs, you can give them an option to turn them in and not face fines. It's an effective program in Washington, so I can't see why we couldn't use it on any coast.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Right. Also—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We have five minutes left, and we have Mr. Fraser, Ms. Jordan, and Mr. Godin.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That was three minutes for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, three minutes and 20 seconds.

If you want to finish your time, maybe we can get one question on this side. I always try to give everybody an opportunity to get a question in.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have just one more.

Can you talk more about the link between vessel registration and insurance, and what you'd like to see at the end of the day? I understand there are actual incentives for pleasure craft owners not to have their boats licensed.

[Rod Smith]

When you buy a boat from someone, there's no obligation to transfer the registration. In fact, there's a disincentive, because as soon as you transfer the registration you have to pay GST. If I bought a boat and transferred the registration to myself, I'd have to pay GST, which is an interesting point. Because of the lack of legislation around this, the federal government has missed out on a lot of GST revenue over the years. Right now it's a disincentive for people to transfer it, and frankly, they don't. I could name dozens of boat owners who have not transferred ownership and have avoided paying thousands of dollars' worth of GST.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Fraser or Ms. Jordan.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure, I have a question for Ms. Gee.

One of the things you referred to at the very beginning was about the insurance requirement on vessels over 300 tonnes not posing any kind of inhibition on our largest trading partners. You mentioned something, and I apologize that I'm searching my memory about it, but I think you said 10 of our major trading partners.... I wasn't quite sure. Maybe it was the 10 initial signatories to the Nairobi Convention. I'm just wondering if, as we seek to expand trading relationships, there's any risk that imposing the insurance requirement will potentially slow down the possibility for new trading partners that may not currently be subject to an insurance regime.

Correct me if I misunderstood the point you were making.

[Bonnie Gee]

No, absolutely not. As I mentioned, there are 41 countries that have signed on to the convention already, and they represent 75% of the world tonnage. Any vessel that is trading into China or Singapore or Panama will already have that insurance in place. You can rest assured that most vessels will already have that insurance in place.