Evidence of meeting #4 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
—the government's history with SNC over the last 24 months, do you not find this a bit sketchy? Canadians deserve the right to know how the lowest technical score won the bid for the Ottawa LRT.
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
My understanding is that there is an investigation being done by the city. It was a contract with them.
I do think, though, that overall your question is the right question. As we spend taxpayer dollars, we need to be mindful. While the way it's arranged is that provinces present projects and the projects are done, most of the time, at the municipal level, I think we need to be making sure that they actually have the intended impact.
I know a lot of people have been impacted by the LRT. It isn't functioning well in Ottawa.
Liberal
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister McKenna, for being here.
Obviously, with your previous portfolio as minister of environment and climate change, you bring a certain expertise to what we read in your mandate letter. There was one particular item in your mandate letter that I'd like you to elaborate on:
Finalize the creation of an additional infrastructure fund by 2020-2021 to support priority projects and economic diversification for communities transitioning from fossil fuels.
Could you give us some more details of what that entails and what we could actually see on the ground?
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
That's a really important question. We are still in the process of getting the details and of developing that fund. In my previous portfolio, when we announced that we were phasing out coal by 2030, we had a just transition task force. This was potentially the first case in the world in which we had a task force that went to communities, including communities in Saskatchewan, and listened to people in those communities.
Hundreds would come out—maybe 600 people in the community—to talk about the impacts of the coal phase-out and what it would mean for their communities. They talked about what investments they would like to see so that they could transition, so that there could be other opportunities, not only for workers, but also for communities.
I think this is incredibly important. We are going to be working on it very closely with provinces, with communities, with business and with labour, because it is an opportunity to support communities, to support the transition to a cleaner future and make sure that everyone is part of it.
Everyone has to be part of it. People deserve good jobs, but we also need to make sure that we're doing our part to take action, including action on climate change.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you.
There has been a great deal of interest in these 5,000 zero-emission school and transit buses over the next five years. All 10 MPs from the region of York, including Mr. Davidson, attended a very interesting session on their priorities. They were extremely interested in the potential for moving toward zero-emission transit buses in particular.
You talked a little bit about the process. I'm optimistic that Mr. Davidson will be conferring with his provincial counterpart, who happens to be Minister of Transportation Caroline Mulroney, on her hopeful enthusiasm for this particular project.
Could you just explain a little bit, because the region of York is ready to put its application in, what exactly the process is and when applications can be made, so that municipalities can start in on this project?
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
We've already started looking at how best to design the intake and do it in a way that will facilitate getting buses out as soon as possible.
The first thing we need is money through the budget, so if you want to make that point...because it's a huge opportunity.
As I mentioned, we have Canadian companies that are leaders in the world in providing electric buses: the New Flyer bus company out of Winnipeg, which I visited recently, and Nova Bus out of Quebec, which I'll be visiting next week.
The good thing about buses.... I've learned a lot about buses. Communities and cities procure on an annual basis, so you can actually get a list from them about the number of buses they would be able to procure. There is a cost differential: It's about 100% more for an electric bus, although there is a life-cycle benefit. Over time, you will pay less. Obviously, there will be fewer health impacts and less pollution as well.
There's a way to design this. We need to take a bit of time, but we also need to make sure that we understand that the money is available.
Having said that, I made an announcement in Guelph not long ago for 65 electric buses and charging infrastructure. Under the green infrastructure fund, there are opportunities already, under existing programs.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you.
My other enthusiasm relates to rural economic development, because my riding has a very large rural area as well.
I noticed that, in supplementary estimates (B), there is an addition for some $3 million to support the rural economic development portfolio. Can you elaborate on what those funds will be used for?
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
This is for Minister Monsef, but it is to set up a new secretariat to do exactly that. My deputy may want to say something more.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
With the creation of a minister of rural economic development, housed within Infrastructure Canada we have some temporary funding to set up the secretariat for two years to support that office in looking at the ongoing management of the way we support rural investment over time.
February 27th, 2020 / 5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Before I ask the minister one last question, I would just like to remind you that there was an agreement to move a motion for the ministers to appear on March 12. That is the motion I sent to all committee members. I just want to make sure that all committee members agree.
The motion reads as follows: “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee invite the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities to appear about the Supplementary Budget Estimates, for one hour each, that this meeting be held on Thursday March 12, 2020, and that the meeting be televised.”
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Berthold.
That will go on the next meeting's docket, as it is now being presented to the committee. It's not permissible to be dealt with today, because this is not according to the business that we're dealing with today—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Perhaps I can finish, Mr. Berthold—nor has it been given to the committee 48 hours in advance, and so we can deal with this at the next meeting.
Go ahead.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
So I gather that you are even refusing to let us talk about it, despite the fact that we had an agreement for me to send you this motion yesterday. The agreements that we come to therefore have little significant value. That is what I have just gathered. Thank you very much.
Madam Minister, what I tried to find out just now is important.
We are talking about a lot of money. We are talking about $188 billion of federal investment in infrastructure. Unfortunately, the provinces have not followed the lead. The provinces do not have the money that is supposed to be used for creating jobs and moving the country’s economy forward. Unfortunately, we have not seen it on the ground because the provinces have not followed the lead.
That is why, just now, I was criticizing the haphazard way the plan was put in place from the outset.
Are you able to give us precise figures? To what extent have the provinces reduced their investment so much that the feds are occupying a place that was previously taken?
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
My deputy minister can give you figures. We want to work with the provinces and they certainly have a major role to play. We want…
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
The Parliamentary Budget Officer has very precise figures showing that the provinces have invested less since the federal government put this plan in place. The effects you promised for the economy, the effects you promised for job creation, have therefore not materialized.
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
The plan lasts for 10 years. We cannot evaluate it in only two years, given that we have not even received all the projects. We cannot do that kind of analysis. We certainly do not want to replace money from the provinces. We are going to invest more. In Quebec, there are projects like the light rail in Gatineau and a lot of public transit projects.
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
A lot of money is required, so we have to work together. We need the three levels of government.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
I understand, Madam Minister.
I just wanted to remind you, as you did yourself just now in your opening remarks, that the Liberals’ promises in 2015 to invest in infrastructure, to run small deficits—$10 billion, then $10 billion, $6 billion and then back to a balanced budget at the end of the last mandate—in order to invest directly and create jobs in Canada, have not materialized. That is why we asked the Auditor General to investigate, that is why we are asking the Auditor General to tell us what has not worked in those two first years and the reason why money has not reached the front lines. What is not working, Madam Minister?
Moreover, the Auditor General of Canada has asked the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for more money in order to be able to conduct an investigation into Canada's infrastructure plan. We are still talking about $186 billion. Is the cabinet going to support that request so that the Auditor General has the money he needs to conduct his investigation?
Liberal
Catherine McKenna Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
Yes. Personally, I want us to be responsible in what we do.
My deputy minister made a good comment. We have already created 77,000 jobs in infrastructure since 2015. A lot of jobs have been created. Perhaps, in your community, there are not even enough workers to build what you want to build.
The projects are coming into us. We are working well with the provinces. Yes, we need more projects from the provinces. When we announce projects, jobs are created.