Transport Committee on Feb. 27th, 2020

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I believe we've already talked about this. This is a challenge that we all need to address, but on several levels, involving the federal and provincial governments and several departments. It's an important issue. On the transportation side of things, we're monitoring water levels and we've imposed speed restrictions to avoid ship generated waves from reaching the river banks.

As you know, there are several other factors, including climate change, increased precipitation and other environmental factors, that contribute to bank erosion. We are all well aware of them.

When there was flooding in Laval last year, I was down there, shovelling along with everyone else.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

First, I do want to signal our concern that despite your introductory comments today committing to more work on rail safety, your mandate letter unfortunately does not actually refer to rail safety this time. A growing number of Canadians are increasingly impacted by unsafe situations on their rail lines—as proven by recent incidents—and we believe this should be clearly highlighted, as you did in your comments, by the Prime Minister and your government.

My first question is about justice for the derailment that killed Dylan Paradis, Andrew Dockrell and Daniel Waldenberger-Bulmer on February 4, 2019. Recently we've come to know, as a result of some in-depth investigative work done by The Fifth Estate, that there are some serious questions about what happened to these three workers. The rail company has absolved itself. The TSB cannot direct a criminal investigation, but you and your government have a responsibility to get to the bottom of this on behalf of not just the workers who are no longer with us, but also the families that are clearly seeking answers and justice for their loved ones.

Will you, as minister, commit to investigating—including a criminal investigation—these three deaths?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Ms. Ashton, it is in my mandate letter, contrary to what you said at the beginning. It says, “Continue to improve the safety of Canada's transportation sector”.

Second, you made the comment that CP has absolved itself. I think that's a rather imprudent comment to make. You know the reality of this situation. When a tragic accident like this happens, a series of actions need to happen with respect to investigations.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'm wondering about your role. I'm not interested in CP's position.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Transport Canada's role, in this particular case, is to conduct an occupational health and safety evaluation. The big evaluation is being done by the Transportation Safety Board. This is the body—and as you know, it is independent from Transport Canada—that is called in to investigate whenever a transportation accident or incident occurs, and it is busy doing that.

I can assure you that TSB is a very professional organization. At the end of this, based on the gathering of all the necessary information and speaking to all the required people, it will conclude what the cause was and will follow that with recommendations. Those recommendations could come to Transport Canada, to CP or to a number of other organizations.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We do look forward to that, but the piece around the need for a criminal investigation was—

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I can speak on that.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'd like a yes or no answer on whether you're willing to take that on.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

A criminal investigation is decided by the local police authority. That's how it's done. Transport Canada can't come in and say, “We want a criminal investigation.”

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Given the questions that are lingering, and the fact that TSB is not mandated, we want to see answers being given, not just for the families, but also to prevent a tragedy like this from ever happening again. We will be looking forward to TSB's report, but we believe, given the questions being asked, that a criminal investigation must be pursued.

I want to move on to another major topic. Your government announced, with great fanfare, the implementation of the air passenger bill of rights. Many were very hopeful about this. The reality is that Canadian consumers are being taken advantage of, day in and day out, by airlines in this country. As we've seen over the last number of months, there are some egregious loopholes that have emerged. This has led to honeymoons being ruined, families not being able to be reunited for important events, and one member of a couple being treated differently than the other, even though they were on the same flight—some truly bizarre, but very problematic scenarios that shouldn't be happening with an air passenger bill of rights.

This stands in sharp contrast to Europe, where the passenger bill of rights allows for advocates, allows for rewards in cases of delays due to weather and maintenance, and is far stronger when it comes to accountability. Do you feel that the air passenger bill of rights goes far enough, or does your government need to move forward in response to the gaps and loopholes the airlines are finding?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You have 40 seconds, Minister.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'll answer that.

First of all, I mentioned that Transport Canada is doing an occupational health and safety investigation. That's under the labour code, and my deputy minister told me that it could result in charges in the case of the tragic accident in Field, B.C.

I'm very happy that we came forward with passenger protection, because people have been asking us for 10 years—as long as I've been a politician—for that. There's a period when people begin to say, “Well, look, I wasn't treated properly. According to my interpretation of the rules, I should have been compensated”, and the airlines say, “No, that's not what we think.” In that case, as you know, many are going to the Canadian Transportation Agency, which will arbitrate.

I would call this the kind of shakedown that needs to happen when the airlines and the passengers have different interpretations. I think we're going to come out of this with a much clearer understanding, and there will be a lot fewer of the situations you've described.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Mr. Baldinelli, you have five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here this afternoon.

Minister, your mandate letter says, “Canadians require a transportation system that is safe and reliable, that facilitates trade and the movement of people and goods”. Yesterday, you were quoted in an article in the National Post. You said, “Even if the barricades all came down tomorrow and the trains worked very hard to get back up to speed, some of these effects are going to be felt for weeks and months to come.”

I think you would agree that these rail blockades have cost the Canadian economy billions of dollars over the three-week period. They have caused thousands of layoffs and have risked supply shortages of critical goods in certain regions of the country. Do you agree that these protests, the blockages, are damaging and have damaged the Canadian economy, yes or no?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Yes, I do. I said so yesterday. I'm not prepared to say “billions”, because I don't have the expertise yet to do so, but there are certainly very serious impacts. There's no question about it.

Not only do we hear about layoffs, but about products that can't be put on the trains to be brought to the ports, and about the ports that can't load them on the ships, and about large numbers of ships at anchorage. It doesn't take much to realize that this has a very important impact on a country that is a trading nation and that moves a lot of goods continuously. More than 300 billion dollars' worth of freight per year moves by train in this country.

It is having an effect. What's important to realize is that even if we start tomorrow and have all the barricades down, it takes weeks, perhaps months, to get back up to speed.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I'd like to go on to trade corridors. Thank you for including some of the statistics within your remarks about the more than 80 projects, 50 funded so far.

My honourable colleague mentioned the report from last year. I believe it was tabled one year ago this month. It talked about a mid-peninsula corridor. There was a case example and a case study review that included the Niagara region. It talked about not only the mid-peninsula corridor, but the greater use of marine transport and using expansion of industrial lands, primarily located in south Niagara, for economic growth.

Minister, are you and your colleagues committed to reviewing and advancing that idea?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We have received an enormous number of project proposals under the national trade corridors fund. It's extremely popular, if I can put it that way, and we have to make difficult decisions. There are many very meritorious projects, but we have to look at it from the point of view of which ones are the most urgent at the moment and are those that we feel will have the greatest effect.

This is not to take away from any other projects, but we don't have an unlimited amount of money. I'd like to do all sorts of projects to make things move more smoothly.

There have been projects that were not picked up in the first submission but were picked up in the second submission. It doesn't mean that if a project doesn't get it when they want it, they're not going to get it.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Here is something that hasn't been touched upon yet. It concerns the airport authority. One of your priorities within the mandate letter was the transfer of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority to a non-profit entity.

I believe that transfer, when originally announced, was to occur by April of this year. Is that still the deadline?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We need to give it more time, because it's taking a little bit longer. In the meantime, CATSA will continue to operate as is, but that transfer will definitely happen. The planning for it is under way at the moment, and the transition will take place.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Am I correct in saying that as part of that planning, the funding provided to CATSA is included in the ticket price the consumer pays, under the air travellers security charge from 2002?

How much is that annually? What is CATSA's budget?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'd have to get back to you with the specific numbers, but the air travellers security charge—the ATSC that you referred to—is collected by the airlines and is given to the Government of Canada. It goes into general revenue, and then the Government of Canada gives money back to CATSA for its operations.

That will be changed under the new arrangement.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

Will that full funding—that full price that CATSA is getting now—be transferred to this non-profit entity?

Second, will the successor rights of employees be built into your plans, so that their contractual benefits, salaries and pension plans are protected?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'll pass it to the deputy minister.

[Michael Keenan, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

Thank you.

There is a transition period during which the Government of Canada, for an initial period, will transfer the funding for CATSA to the not-for-profit private sector entity that is being set up to run it.

After the transfer period, that entity would directly collect the ATSC from passengers, so the money will no longer come into the government and go back out. It will go directly from passengers, through the ticket, to the new entity. At that point, precisely 100% of what is collected will go to the entity. In time, the government will transfer to the entity what it is currently providing to CATSA to maintain operations, with the regular escalation for volume, etc.