Evidence of meeting #6 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
Yes, but it's up to them to explain why they made that decision. In Canada—
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I understand.
I'd like to ask you some more questions, Mr. Garneau.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
—we make our decisions based on scientific information.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Boeing employees who worked on the plane claimed that it was designed by clowns who were supervised by monkeys, and that they would never let their families on board. The U.S. Congress transport committee even ruled that the Boeing 737 MAX was a fundamentally flawed and dangerous aircraft. On March 13, 2019, Canada and the United States were the last two countries to issue a flight ban on the Boeing 737 MAX.
Why did you wait so long?
In Canada—Quebec is still part of Canada for the moment—are we capable of thinking for ourselves or do we need permission from the United States before we act?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
On the contrary, it was Canada's decision to ground the plane, for the reasons I have explained to you. We contacted the Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA, and the United States followed us several hours later. They did not precede us, they followed us. We told them that we believed there were very important similarities between the two flights that unfortunately crashed, and we decided to ground this type of aircraft. The United States followed us two hours later.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I understand. That's your version of the facts.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
That's not my version of the facts, that's the reality. Let us be clear on this point.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
Canada made a decision and the United States made the same decision two hours later. We contacted them and told them that we were deciding to ground it. Do not say that—
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
No, you're right, but let me continue, Minister.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I'll admit that that's not just your version of events. It's true, the Americans decided to ground the planes two or three hours later, that's a fact. However, the fact remains that these things happened the same day. It was quite close.
I'd like to raise another point, but I think it's a little late.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
Mr. Barsalou-Duval, I don't know what you are trying to imply, but I think it is disrespectful. We made our decision. The United States made theirs a few hours later. You must not try to create the impression that there was an agreement between the two countries. That is false and—
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I didn't assume that, I just asked a question.
When you said you were ready to board the Boeing 737 MAX, the U.S. government had information that convinced you to ground it two days later.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
That's what was reported in the press, anyway.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
Unfortunately, the media do not always interpret things correctly.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Okay, but according to the media—
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
That is one of the reasons why I am very happy to be here. Many of the things that have been said in the press and in the media are either untrue, partially untrue or contain important omissions. I want to remind everyone that it is important to stick to the facts.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
That is fine, but according to the media—you will correct me when you have the opportunity to do so, after I have asked my question—the information was so critical that the planes were grounded the day you obtained it. The United States had already had this information for two days. You say that this was not quite the case and that it would not have been communicated, although our two countries, according to your office—I think this is true—communicate several times a day. You have been in communication with the American authorities at least three times a day.
Don't you think the FAA lacked transparency by not providing you with this information?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
I can't speak for the FAA. With regard to your question about whether they had information, I will tell you that our two organizations were in touch and were both trying to understand why this accident happened.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you. I'd like to ask you one last question, since I have 30 seconds left.
Your officials, including Mr. Turnbull here, say they have full confidence in the FAA. Last week, when we called them in on February 25, they said, "We trust the FAA [...]".
Not only do the Americans seem not to have given us all the information, but they also let their companies certify themselves. For example, since 2005, due to budget cuts, with the new ODA procedure, Boeing itself has been certifying its own aircraft. So it was Boeing that chose the engineers who did the tests on the famous 737 MAX, and the FAA just approved things without quibbling.
Do you believe, as I do, that our officials may have made a mistake in blindly trusting the FAA?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
The report that was recently produced by a congressional committee talks about how certification was done between the FAA and Boeing. I'm going to let the report speak for itself.
However, I can tell you that in Canada, when we certify our aircraft, we choose the delegates who work for the company and who will help us with the certification very carefully. For example, when we certified the Bombardier C Series, even though Transport Canada employees had spent 160,000 hours doing the certification, there were also delegates who helped us in that process. And in fact, it wasn't Bombardier that chose them, it was us.