Transport Committee on June 16th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. McCrimmon.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister McKenna. It's good to see you. Obviously, it would have been even better to see you in person.

My first question concerns the situation of municipalities in Quebec. As a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, their revenue has dropped significantly. They're very worried, especially since they're not allowed to run deficits. According to a study by the Raymond Chabot group, the coffers of cities in Quebec are short $1.2 billion, and 60% of the cities' total losses are related to public transit. We're talking about $670 million for public transit. Municipalities are losing 70% to 80% of revenue from this sector. That's a huge amount. People are no longer using public transit, but the buses must still run.

Unfortunately, supplementary estimates (A) don't seem to include any new money for municipalities. I want to know whether any money is forthcoming.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for your question.

We acknowledge the importance of supporting all Canadians in these difficult times, but also the municipalities. The loss of revenue in the public transit sector is difficult for municipalities. We'll certainly work with the provinces. As you know, municipalities fall under provincial jurisdiction according to the Constitution. However, we're working very closely with the provinces. We've already provided $2.2 billion to cities and communities. We've moved ahead with the transfer of money from the gas tax fund.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I know that you provided money through the federal gas tax fund. However, it's a bit like giving people money to buy a car and a house and to build infrastructure when they can't afford groceries. The money wouldn't get them far.

I want to know exactly when the cities will receive assistance. I understand that this falls under the Government of Quebec's jurisdiction. That's why we're asking you to send the money to the Government of Quebec so that it can give the money to the cities. I don't think that this is an issue. All the ministers in Quebec and the other provinces have asked you for this assistance. So have all the cities in Quebec and Canada. The message is unanimous. They need assistance and they need money.

Will you respond, and if so, when?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We've already responded by advancing money through the federal gas tax fund. I was pleased to see this mentioned today in the Kamloops newspapers. With the money advanced, the city will be able to include infrastructure investments in its budget. We certainly need to work with the provinces.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you. I think that the answer is no.

I want to ask you another question, which I didn't get the opportunity to ask the Minister of Transport earlier.

Over the weekend, my leader went to Trois-Rivières to talk about the high-frequency train, or HFT, that keeps getting closer and closer but never arrives. Since 2015, or even earlier, studies have been announced and discussions have been held regarding the next steps. From one government to another, we sometimes lose hope. However, since supplementary estimates (A) include funding for studies and for VIA Rail, I want to know whether you can tell us when the work will begin.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm pleased to tell the member that it's a priority in my mandate letter. I think that it's really very important. VIA Rail is working with the Canada Infrastructure Bank and with our officials to develop a plan. We've talked a great deal about the high-frequency train project for the region. We certainly need to move forward, but I know that the member wants us to be—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask one last question if I have time left.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We're careful with taxpayers' money.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

It would be good if the HFT were to come to fruition, since it was one of your election promises in 2015. It has already been five years, and not much progress has been made.

In my constituency, the Port of Montreal's Contrecœur terminal is another project on hold. The project seems to be on track. However, we still don't know when the government will provide authorization.

Could you tell us when the work will begin at Contrecoeur?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is looking at this project very closely. Of course, work must be done. I think that these projects are very important. However, we must do whatever is necessary to ensure that these investments make sense. We must always be mindful that this is taxpayers' money. We must be careful.

I'll give the floor to my deputy minister, who may have something to add.

[Kelly Gillis, Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Communities, Office of Infrastructure of Canada]

As the minister said, the Canada Infrastructure Bank is studying the Contrecoeur project and conducting analyses to determine the investment structure and how procurement will proceed. We don't have a specific date, because the bank must establish the time frame.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

From what I can see, the cities, the HFT and Contrecœur are all on hold. However, in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, we would have expected some projects to proceed more quickly. The process has been long for FIMEAU as well.

Furthermore, the former president and CEO of VIA Rail awarded a $1-billion contract to the Siemens multinational company instead of to Bombardier. Siemens hired the former president and CEO. Perhaps this was a way of thanking him for the nice contract. We would have liked to put local people to work.

Have you reviewed the awarding of the contract to ensure that everything was done properly? We find that something smells fishy.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'll give the floor to my deputy minister.

[Kelly Gillis]

This issue doesn't really fall within the purview of our department, but rather of Transport Canada, which will decide on the type of train. We won't be reviewing the contract.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

In your recovery plan—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Bachrach, you have two minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister, for joining us today by video.

You mentioned earlier the expedited gas tax funds for municipalities. As a former mayor, I know that there are very few communities that wouldn't welcome expedited infrastructure funds, but the crisis facing municipalities right now when it comes to COVID-19 isn't on the infrastructure side. It's not on the capital side. It's a crisis of operating costs, and yet we still haven't seen targeted funding to support municipalities with their operating costs during this crisis. Is that something we're going to see? Specifically, is there any way your government will consider extending the wage subsidy to municipalities and providing targeted support for transit operators?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Of course, it's incredibly important that we support municipalities. They have been hit hard by COVID-19, including not receiving the revenue they expected from public transportation. Advancing the gas tax did make a difference. I will once again re-emphasize that Kamloops now says that it's considering adding capital work back into its 2020 budget as a result of the gas tax being accelerated. We also are in a process with provinces and territories. Every week the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister meet. We are working on a safe restart agreement with provinces and territories. We announced that we will be contributing $14 billion. That will include a whole range of areas, including supports to cities and municipalities. We need the provinces and territories to be working with us; that's incredibly important. Provinces and territories often remind us that municipalities are creatures of provinces. I think we need to show Canadians that we can work together.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

My next question has to with the climate lens. From what I can tell, there's no way that Canadians can have any assurance the $187-billion infrastructure spend is going to result in a net decrease in climate pollution. Some projects increase climate pollution; some decrease it. However, overall, there's no accountability measure, and the climate lens only applies to a small portion of infrastructure projects.

Are you going to consider some sort of mechanism to ensure that our overall infrastructure investment decreases greenhouse gas emissions?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As you can imagine, that's a very important question for me. As the past Minister of Environment and Climate Change, developing the climate plan required the reduction of emissions across the board, including through our infrastructure plan. The infrastructure reductions in emissions from the infrastructure plan are built into our climate plan. That is why we have a climate lens that applies to about 90% of all spending. It requires a climate lens in all climate-focused projects in the $9.2-billion green stream program.

Let's talk about the types of projects that we're funding. We're funding public transit projects, infrastructure projects, adaptation projects, mitigation projects, large-scale renewable projects. All of these projects, we know, reduce emissions, but I'm very focused on ensuring that we get the reductions that we need. We have committed to net-zero emissions by 2050, and everyone needs to do—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, is there an infrastructure target related to greenhouse gas emissions and climate pollution?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Yes, there is a 10-megatonne emissions reduction requirement for infrastructure projects, which is why the climate lens is so important. It's also why it's so important that we're funding projects that we know reduce emissions, like public transit—getting people out of their cars—and like renewable infrastructure. All of these things are critically important to not only meeting our climate goals, but also ensuring a healthier and cleaner future for all Canadians.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have very limited time, and I have two more questions that I'd love to ask.

The first one is that the Auditor General has previously urged the government to be more transparent when it comes to executive compensation at Crown corporations. You've alluded before to the so-called fresh start at the Canada Infrastructure Bank. I'm wondering if that new beginning at the Canada Infrastructure Bank is going to include increased transparency around the CEO compensation.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I think it's very important to understand that the Canada Infrastructure Bank is a Crown corporation. It operates at arm's length from the Government of Canada. As per the statement of priorities and accountabilities, they were encouraged to develop a compensation policy that reflects the best practices of Crown corporations and other comparable organizations, and were told that this is important. Of course, we now have Michael Sabia, who's the new chair of the board of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. He was with the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec. He's very ambitious in what the Canada Infrastructure Bank can do. We've seen that there are real opportunities to make a difference.

I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what the Canada Infrastructure Bank proposes, going forward, for projects in a whole range of areas that are included in my mandate letter, which include a $5-billion clean power fund from the Canada Infrastructure Bank, investments in renewable energy, and opportunities in public transit. Michael Sabia was involved in the REM project—