Transport Committee on Jan. 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Good afternoon, everyone. It's a pleasure to get back to work here in the new session after the holiday season.

I would like to welcome all of you to meeting number 12 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are in fact available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of “floor”, “English” or “French”.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in the committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as it normally is by the proceedings and verification officer.

I remind you that all comments by members or witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain the order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is meeting today to continue its study on the impact of COVID-19 on the aviation sector.

I would like to introduce our witnesses for today.

From the Air Canada component of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, we have Wesley Lesosky, president; and from the Air Line Pilots Association, International, we have Tim Perry, president of the Air Line Pilots Association of Canada.

From the Canadian Union of Public Employees, local 4070, we have Christopher Rauenbusch, president; and from the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, we have Paul Cameron, business manager and financial secretary, as well as, no stranger to the Hill, Matt Wayland, executive assistant to the international vice-president and Canadian director of government relations.

From the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, we have Debbie Daviau, president, and Emily Watkins, senior adviser to the president. Finally, on behalf of Unifor, we have Jerry Dias, national president, as well as Kaylie Tiessen, researcher.

With that, I'm going to go right into our witnesses for 10 minutes each. We'll start off with the Air Canada component of the Canadian Union of Public Employees.

Mr. Lesosky, the floor is yours for 10 minutes.

[Wesley Lesosky, President, Air Canada Component of the Canadian Union of Public Employees]

Good afternoon. My name is Wes Lesosky. I am a professional flight attendant and the president of the Air Canada component of the Canadian Union of Public Employees. I represent just shy of 10,000 flight attendants at Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge.

I am also the president of CUPE's airline division, which represents 15,000 flight attendants at nine different Canadian airlines across Canada.

I am very grateful to the committee for the invitation to appear today and speak about the impacts of the pandemic on workers like me in Canada. Flights attendants, as you know, were some of the first workers in Canada to confront COVID-19 in the workplace.

Even as many were flying repatriation flights to bring Canadians home from around the globe, flight attendants were losing their jobs by the thousands. Unlike many other sectors of the economy, by and large those jobs have not come back since the onset of the pandemic last March. In fact, we have hundreds more being laid off next week. Around three-quarters of our members are currently laid off, and wondering if there will even be an industry to return to once the pandemic dust settles. Needless to say, it has been a difficult year for us.

To be quite frank, it has been made much more difficult than it needed to be by the federal government, which has repeatedly ignored our calls for help, and rarely, if ever, consulted labour representatives on major decisions affecting our members, their health and safety, and their livelihoods.

On behalf of our 15,000 members, I would like to propose the following for the committee's consideration.

Number one, the government needs to better protect the rights of airline workers to a healthy and safe work environment, including the right to refuse unsafe work. Our members went through hell in the early months of the pandemic, and we had a regulator that refused to act when we tried to push for protections to make our jobs safer. The government needs to work with us, not against us, to make flying safer for cabin crew and the flying public.

Number two, it's time for the government to take a serious look at implementing pre-boarding rapid testing at airports. For months, we have been calling on the federal government to implement rapid testing to make flying safer for both cabin crew and the public, without harming the industry. Instead, the government hastily imposed its pre-travel test policy earlier this month, which the numbers show does nothing to increase safety and which led to thousands more jobs lost overnight.

Number three, our industry needs targeted financial aid from the federal government that prioritizes protecting workers and their families from the impacts of the virus. We are perplexed that Canada remains the only G7 country without a comprehensive aid package for the airline industry. Since April we've been hearing that financial aid for the industry is just around the corner to help protect tens of thousands of jobs, and yet each time we think the government may act, we're met with more delay and disappointment.

Number four, the government must fix well-intentioned programs like the Canada emergency wage subsidy so they cannot be abused by employers. The program was established to help employers avoid sweeping layoffs by covering 75% of the payroll, but instead of honouring the intent of the program, Air Canada, for example, has laid off the vast majority of its workforce, including about 8,000 of my members, but it is still utilizing the wage subsidy for active employees. The federal government has, since day one, resisted putting any conditions on this program to prevent companies from taking the money while leaving their workers behind.

Canada is a very large place. More than almost any other country, we rely on a safe and dependable air transportation network to connect our communities and keep our economy strong. Just like roads, highways, ferries and rail networks, Canada needs a strong airline industry. Ours is an industry where safety is paramount. We should all be concerned with the long-term implications of losing tens of thousands of flight attendants, pilots, air traffic controllers, aircraft technicians and other workers who have years of training and expertise in keeping the public safe while they are 30,000 feet in the air, all because the federal government decides not to act while it has the chance.

Our members answered the federal government's call for help when COVID-19 struck. Now we ask that you answer theirs.

Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Lesosky.

We'll now move on to the Air Line Pilots Association International, Mr. Tim Perry.

Tim, for five minutes the floor is yours.

[Captain Tim Perry, President, Air Line Pilots Association Canada, Air Line Pilots Association International]

Thank you very much.

On behalf of the 5,500 professional pilots at 16 airlines in Canada, ALPA appreciates the opportunity to provide comments to the committee for its study on the impact of COVID-19 on the aviation sector.

As you know, workers continue to bear the brunt of the impact that COVID-19 has had on the aviation industry. The almost complete shutdown of the industry has made flight operations a financially losing proposition and the industry's eventual restart very complex.

Aviation jobs, in particular, will either take several years to fully return to the extensive time required to requalify or, worse, disappear altogether. While other governments around the world have been quick to support their airlines and people, we are still waiting.

I would like to remind you that compounding this issue is the fact that, prior to COVID-19, our industry faced a severe pilot shortage. Any study will tell you that we'll face this issue again before long, and this time even more acutely and with even more severe consequences to the industry. This path of inaction will ensure dire consequences, not just now, but in the future as well.

I want to emphasize this as clearly as possible right now, because I've become aware of some misinterpretation here from talking to many over the last number of weeks and months. Safety for Canadians is, and always will be, number one. We agree on this. We do, however, believe that our testing and border policy could be better if better information was taken into account and proper consultation occurred, but I will speak to that in a moment.

Nothing I say here is any way contrary to the public safety of Canadians. ALPA's position on how to help the industry and weather the storm has, since the beginning of the pandemic, been consistent: implement an aviation-specific financial assistance program, with strong labour protections that provide direct support to airlines that have been significantly impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

I understand that this seemingly simple request may be challenging to deliver even when all parties agree about its necessity. With this in mind, I want to offer our perspective and experience as an organization deeply familiar with the sector.

I'd like to highlight the perspective that we bring to the table and put a human face on the impact the pandemic has had on the airline industry. I have several letters from our members expressing in their own words the impact, the hardship and the frustration that the lack of support for the industry is creating in their lives. I will forward these to you, and I strongly urge you to read them as you consider a path out of these unprecedented times for the sake of the industry, its workers and our country.

To date, meaningful dialogue between the government and aviation labour organizations has not adequately occurred. Unless this changes, and changes soon, it will be to the detriment of aviation workers, the industry and Canada's economy. Policy decisions that ultimately affect so many Canadians and workers, in particular, cannot continue to be made without proper consultation and engagement.

For example, conflicting definitions for “crew” in orders in council, interim orders and guidance materials have caused confusion, not only for those pilots who are fortunate enough to still be working, but also for those who are charged with implementation and enforcement of COVID requirements that apply to air transportation, such as airlines and CBSA. With more restrictions currently being considered by the government, the industry is faced with an even bleaker outlook, as it will increasingly be unable to absorb them unless there is substantial support from the government to compensate for the impact more restrictions would have.

The uncoordinated patchwork of federal, provincial and territorial jurisdictions that are dealing with the pandemic, combined with a lack of financial support from the federal government, has created the perfect storm for the failure of the Canadian airline industry.

ALPA offers significant expertise and a unique perspective on the industry. We speak for and defend those who are most affected and acutely in need of stability. As the industry remains under threat, we need to take action now and together to ensure the stabilization, continued viability, and ultimately, the survival of the airline sector in Canada.

Thank you very much. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Perry.

We're now going to move on to CUPE, local 4070, the Canadian Union of Public Employees.

Mr. Rauenbusch.

[Christopher Rauenbusch, President, Canadian Union of Public Employees - Local 4070]

Thank you very much for having me.

My name is Chris Rauenbusch and I've been a flight attendant at WestJet since 2002. I am the president of CUPE Local 4070 representing the over 4,100 flight attendants at WestJet, WestJet Encore and Swoop.

Canadian airlines are in crisis. It's a crisis caused by COVID but made worse by the inaction of our government.

To put the crisis in perspective, let me tell you quickly that I have just avoided layoff for February by two years of service. I've been employed by WestJet for 19 years, and there are currently no flight attendants with fewer than 17 years of service who are actively flying. Roughly four out of five flight attendants at WestJet are grounded right now.

According to the International Air Transport Association, IATA, in its report titled “The Value of Air Transport in Canada”, which was published in 2019, just prior to the pandemic, the aviation sector directly supported 241,000 jobs in Canada. Our sector supported another 146,000 jobs through the necessary supply chains and other support businesses. Our sector supported yet a further 55,000 jobs through spending of wages earned by our sector's workers. A total of 633,000 jobs are associated with the air transport sector, and that includes 190,000 jobs created due to foreign tourists.

The aviation sector, including domestic-based airlines, generated $37 billion U.S. of GDP annually prior to the pandemic. Since that report from IATA in 2019, Canada's aviation sector has shed hundreds of thousands of jobs as a direct result of COVID-19. Some of these workers are on the CEWS wage subsidy, but many are not. Irrespective of the wage subsidy, many fear that they may never return to their jobs as airlines have shed capacity since the pandemic began, including both of Canada's largest carriers—WestJet and Air Canada—which, yet again, starting in February of this year will be laying off many more of our members. Much of this capacity will, sadly, likely never return.

Within the WestJet group of companies, over 4,100 flight attendants were employed a year ago, prior to the pandemic. As of February 1, a total of only 777 flight attendants will remain active. This number represents an 81% cut to our actively employed flight attendants. This is unprecedented.

We have heard the government discuss the importance of regional routes and air service as one of their top priorities for any aid that they might provide to our sector. This is an understandable position but the reality is that regional air service is most productive when regional routes are connected to a larger network of domestic, transborder and international flights on a main carrier's global network. Regional routes are not efficiently served by strictly point-to-point service just because the government demands it.

Regional routes are best served by multiple frequencies by more than one carrier, which benefit consumers in these regions. Good regional air service is a by-product of healthy global networks built by airlines over time.

Good regional air service cannot thrive simply because Ottawa decrees it should be so, but because regional routes feed the global networks of these airlines, thereby creating profit. That's the incentive that is needed to properly see regional markets well served with more and more service being added unless, of course, Ottawa wants to nationalize passenger air service once again.

If I leave you with nothing else today, please do hear this: We can't assume that airlines like WestJet or Air Canada will simply bounce back after the pandemic ends. The damage being done to the sector is too intense for us to survive, particularly if the pandemic continues. A country as large as Canada needs profitable airlines, and I'm deeply concerned that we won't have them if this government doesn't act fast.

Canada remains the only G7 country without government sectoral support for airlines. In the U.S., billions of dollars in government aid has been provided to airlines to help keep them afloat.

The WestJet network is operating at a level seen in 2001, based on flights per day and available seat miles, a key indicator of an airline's size and market offering.

As Canadians we cannot afford to let the things that are currently transpiring in our industry happen. This government cannot afford to recklessly be complicit in abandoning our key sector, which contributes to our national economy, particularly after hearing testimony from my colleagues and me today.

I implore the committee to take our testimony today with the weight and seriousness that it deserves. Our sector urgently needs federal sectoral support. Sectoral support coupled with a nationwide pre-board testing program is the only way to avoid the national disaster that would be the full or near-full collapse of the Canada's airlines.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Rauenbusch.

We'll now move on to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. We have Mr. Paul Cameron and Mr. Matt Wayland.

Gentlemen, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Matt Wayland, Executive Assistant to the International Vice-President and Canadian Director of Government Relations, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, committee members, fellow witnesses and guests.

I would like to thank you for allowing us to present today to members of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities for your study on the impact of COVID-19 on the aviation sector.

The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, IBEW, represents 70,000 members here in Canada, and over 775,000 across North America in a variety of sectors. For today's discussion, we'll be focusing on our members who work for Nav Canada.

Joining me here today is Paul Cameron, business manager of IBEW Local Union 2228, which represents just over 2,000 members across the country, including all 600 members at Nav Canada who work as electronics technologists.

Nav Canada is a private non-profit corporation that provides air traffic control, airport advisory services, weather briefings and aeronautical information services for more than 18 million square kilometres of Canadian domestic and oceanic airspace. It is Canada's sole air navigation services provider and, prior to privatization, was once part of Transport Canada.

Nav Canada's safety record is undeniably one of the best in the world amongst air navigation services providers, thanks in large part to the expertise of IBEW members and those who belong to the seven other unions that represent the over 4,000 highly skilled Nav Canada employees nationwide.

We often describe Nav Canada as an essential utility, much like our electricity system. Many people take electricity for granted until the day the power lines are down and they cannot be reached. Nav Canada is a utility that is used by international and domestic airlines, and it cannot simply be reduced in capacity and returned to a full level of functioning by the flip of a switch.

Nav Canada's customers include airlines, air cargo operators, air charter operators, medevacs, air taxis, helicopter operators and business and general aviation.

Nav Canada operates under the Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act and recovers its operating expenses through service charges from its customers on a break-even basis, and herein lies the major issue for Nav Canada. It is restricted to operating on that break-even basis.

With air traffic down 86.8% year over year according to Stats Canada, it didn't take long for it to run into financial issues, much like the other presenters across the aviation sector have mentioned here today. Nav Canada is currently losing millions of dollars every day, even after the benefit of the Canada emergency wage subsidy is factored in.

IBEW members at Nav Canada are employed as electronics technologists, with specialized training in aviation navigation technology. This specialized training is delivered by Nav Canada to eligible employees who are hired after completing electronics technology courses on their own.

Nav Canada's training is not offered at any other school in the country. The specialized training for IBEW members can take up to two years to complete. Our members and those experts working for the seven other unions at Nav Canada work in close collaboration with one another on a daily basis, and one can simply not operate without the other.

Now these professionals are being laid off, and they are not going to wait around for a call back to work. Their skills and expertise will land them jobs in other sectors around the country and around the globe, leaving a massive gap in Nav Canada's ability to ramp up service when air travel returns to pre-pandemic levels, which we are all hoping for. Simply replacing laid-off workers who seek work elsewhere is not as simple as you may assume.

Inaction on this request will cost Canadians the training and expertise of these professionals who have kept our skies safe and will only slow down the post-pandemic recovery for Canada's air travel, cargo and tourism industries.

I think this important point bears repeating. Reducing staffing levels and the company's capacity to provide an essential service now and for many years into the future is a potential catastrophic safety risk to the aviation sector and to the Canadian public. We need the federal government to act now. It's time to put safety first.

Our ask is simple. We want to see emergency funding in the form of a grant to Nav Canada in the amount of $750 million for both 2020 and 2021. That will help stabilize its operations and retain all Nav Canada employees, including those workers who have been laid off since the pandemic began. This will ensure Nav Canada can safely continue to deliver the key services post-pandemic and into the future.

These measures must be in the form of a grant, as all cost recovery for Nav Canada would require higher fees that would only be passed on to airlines and other clients that are already devastated by the pandemic. We urge the Government of Canada to act now. Further delays will only exacerbate the problem.

Thank you for your time. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Wayland.

We're now going to move on to the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada and Ms. Daviau, president, as well as Ms. Watkins.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Debi Daviau, President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada]

Thank you very much. Good afternoon. My name is Debi Daviau and I'm the president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada. We represent over 60,000 professionals across Canada.

I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to present our concerns about the situation at Nav Canada and how best to ensure its continued viability. I'm accompanied here today by my senior adviser, Emily Watkins, and we are both available to answer questions after the presentations.

Our union represents some 475 engineers and information technology specialists at Nav Canada. Thanks to them, the Canadian automated air traffic management system is one of the most advanced and integrated flight data-processing systems in the world. They are essential to providing services to commercial and general aviation from facilities throughout Canada. These include air traffic control, flight information, weather briefings, aeronautical information services, airport advisory services and electronic aids to navigation, and they are responsible for enterprise security and cyber activities.

Since last fall, some 50 of our members have been given notice of their surplus status. I'd like to assure committee members that we are very much aware that Nav Canada is losing millions of dollars every day because of the dramatic drop in air traffic over the past year, and we understand that management had to scramble to put together a plan to deal with that, but much more needs to be done. The government must take immediate and decisive action to keep the company in business, protect the safety of air travel in Canada and protect the jobs of people who ensure that safety. Continued cuts to personnel and the closure of facilities across the country are simply not the way to do that.

An important reality for all members of Parliament and indeed all Canadians to consider is that air traffic control in Canada has only one provider, Nav Canada. Responsibility over air traffic control is not done by any other entity in Canada. Nav Canada has no counterparts, no competitors. The federal government needs to ensure that it has the support now that it requires to be able to resume its operations when air traffic returns to pre-pandemic levels.

We have many concerns regarding the impact the cuts will have on the long-term health of air safety and of the company. Reductions in services and personnel have resulted in Canadians expressing safety concerns about their air travel. Remote and northern areas are heavily dependent on air traffic for many aspects of their daily lives—food, supplies, medical care and travel in and out of their communities. They cannot be left without this critical access.

Many facilities have been or are scheduled to be closed across Canada. Many more are under review. In what remains a male-dominated environment, many of the laid-off staff are women, and often the most recently hired employees. Gender equality and diversity have suffered.

Nav Canada is a company that not many Canadians are familiar with, a fact that actually speaks volumes to the level of service and the stellar safety record it has enjoyed. It has not gotten much attention, but that's a good thing.

However, now we have to talk about the company because it needs the help of government and it needs it now. To address the current realities, we need the following.

The government must take immediate and decisive action to support Nav Canada by providing sufficient emergency funding to get it through this crisis. This must take the form of a grant in the amount of $750 million for each of the next two years to preserve and restore its workforce and continue to deliver its key services. A grant is the only viable government financial support option as the cost-recovery model used by Nav Canada would require it to charge higher fees to airlines that are already devastated by the pandemic. The grant must be accompanied by a moratorium on layoffs. The skills, expertise and experience that have kept our skies safe must be retained. They're the key to the successful recovery of air travel and related industries in Canada. Every effort must be made to rehire the former employees once the air travel industry resumes normal activities. Such specialized staff cannot be found and trained overnight.

Given the airlines' and related industries' huge impact on the Canadian economy, and the tens of thousands of direct and indirect jobs affected, I'd like to conclude by emphasizing how further inaction will only slow down Canada's post-pandemic recovery. I urge the government to step in right away.

Thank you for your time. I would be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Daviau.

We're now going to move on to Unifor. We have Mr. Dias and Ms. Tiessen.

You have five minutes. The floor is all yours.

[Jerry Dias, National President, Unifor]

Thank you.

My initial comments will be to the committee. So far, you've listened today to the heads of the largest public and private sector unions in this country. As you can tell, we're frustrated, we're disappointed and, frankly, we're completely pissed off over the lack of action from the government on this important file.

Thank you for inviting me to speak today on the impact of COVID-19 on the air transportation industry.

You've already heard the headline statistics. Air traffic plummeted in the second quarter of last year and remains unsustainably low. Even in October, eight months after the pandemic began, air transportation-related GDP was only 10% of the pre-pandemic levels. Passenger traffic was only 15%, and domestic and international flights remain at all-time lows.

Those are just a few of the most recent statistics. With the new travel restrictions being discussed, we know that these numbers are going to get worse. Each of those numbers represents real hardship for tens of thousands of workers across the country.

Unifor represents more than 15,000 workers in the air transportation industry. Our members are pilots, customer sales and service agents, air traffic controllers and flight service specialists. They work as aircraft mechanics and flight schedulers, flight attendants and baggage handlers. They keep our airports running smoothly. They've all been taking a beating like no other during this pandemic.

Let me tell you what our members and locals have experienced as a result of this crisis. Forty-five per cent of our members in airlines are laid off, furloughed or have had their employment relationship completely severed. At Air Canada alone, 60% of our members are laid off. At Porter and Sunwing, all of our members are laid off or furloughed. At ELS, our members have been permanently let go as their work is now being done by another entity altogether.

Many workers have already lost their health insurance, and more are given notice each day. They are being forced to take pay cuts in order to avoid layoffs, all while wondering if they'll have a job to go back to.

We've been here before, and we do not need to go through it again. It's not only workers who are feeling the effects. Communities are struggling too. Air Canada has closed 17 stations and suspended dozens of routes. There is no guarantee that these stations will open again.

Our members at Nav Canada are warning that flight services at rural airports have been cut, and two flight information centres will be closed. Pilots are losing flight time, and trainees in every job category have been let go. Training to recertify can take up to two years and is incredibly expensive. All of this has direct impacts on the cost of training and recertifying, as well as safety when commercial travel restarts in earnest.

I could go on, but I want to get to the solutions.

Unifor began warning of the grave effects on the industry way back in March. We have not let up. We have met with and written to the government nearly a dozen times on this topic, but the government refuses to act.

We are calling on the government to create a national recovery plan for the aviation industry. Without a plan, Canada's workers and employers are being left in the dark. The plan must include vital government support to carry Canada's airlines, airports and navigation services through this crisis and ensure they are ready and able to fly again as soon as restrictions are lifted.

People are going to want to fly again, and right now there is no plan in place that ensures capacity will exist to serve the pent-up demand. Globally, governments have provided airlines with nearly $150 billion in relief. Canada has provided less than $2 billion, of which $1.1 billion was in wage subsidies. In the G7, only Italy has provided less.

We can and we have to do better. The plan must ensure services are preserved and remote locations do not lose service or their vital connections to medicine, business and family and friends.

The plan must include adapting border restrictions to safely reopen borders when it is safe to do so, in line with the International Civil Aviation Organization's universal standard to implement rapid testing and dynamic quarantine. All of this is outlined in our recovery plan submitted to the government in October. Copies have been provided to you.

Finally, we need to make sure that any plan focuses on a network for recovery that builds a better industry for all participants. The stimulus after the 2008-09 crisis was critical to recovery, but it delivered recovery for the corporate sector, while workers and families continued to experience long bouts of unemployment, stagnant wages and precarious work. Every worker deserves better.

I look forward to answering your questions, and thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Dias.

We're now going to move on to our speaking list. We have six minutes for each member in the first round.

Ms. Kusie, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses who are here today.

Chair, it's unfortunate but I'm going to be moving the two motions that I put on notice. I think this is perhaps a lesson in hindsight and also in looking ahead that perhaps we should plan to schedule committee business on our return to the House after any significant period of delay because certainly we want to use the time with our witnesses as well as possible, but I also feel these motions need to be made, ultimately, for their benefit.

The first motion I put on notice, which I will read now, is:

That the Committee hold a minimum of one meeting to hear witness testimony from Transport Canada officials regarding approval of the 737 MAX aircraft return to service, and that these meetings occur no later than 18 February 2021.

Mr. Chair, I did say a minimum of one meeting—it could be only one meeting—but I do think, as we concluded the session in the early winter, that we did not go so far as to put forward the idea of a national inquiry into the MAX. I do believe it is our responsibility to return to this issue for one final meeting with officials from Transport Canada, given their public justification on the record as to the rationale behind the return of the MAX.

The second notice of motion I'm putting forward is:

That the Committee invite the Transport Minister to appear for two hours, with the first hour focussed on the Supplemental Mandate Letter

—which of course brings up very important points, new points, the first one being particularly relevant to the group of witnesses we have here today around an airline plan. It seems to me that all of our witnesses are very aware of this, and I'm certain they've read point number one on the supplemental mandate letter—

and the second hour on the pre-entry testing requirements,

—and given that it is front-page news that we are seeing new travel requirements, which we anticipate will be implemented any day, relevant to that—

and that this meeting occur as soon as possible but no later than 25 February 2021.

I put forward those motions, which I put on notice previously, Chair.

Again, my sincere apologies to the witnesses. I'm hopeful in the future we can put forward at least a half-hour or hour of committee business prior to having witnesses scheduled so as not to take away from their valuable time.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Kusie.

I appreciate the sentiments. We were going to move forward with a committee business meeting following our first meeting back in session, but having those put forward today is fine.

Members of the committee, we have heard the motions.

Mr. Clerk, do we have a handle on the motions?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Michael MacPherson]

Yes. The motions were already distributed to all members. I would just advise that we take them one at a time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Clerk, can you read out the first motion for the members, please?

[The Clerk]

That the Committee hold a minimum of one meeting to hear witness testimony from Transport Canada officials regarding approval of the 737 MAX aircraft return to service, and that these meetings occur no later than 18 February 2021.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Members of the committee, are there any questions or comments on this motion?

Mr. Sidhu, you have the floor.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I do believe these are important matters to my colleague, but I think we need to respect the witnesses' time here. I do believe the minister should appear because these are very important issues that relate to all of us here, but I think this is a discussion we should be having after we speak to our witnesses today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I apologize. I'm having some technical difficulties. I've moved closer to my modem, but that may also mean that I'm closer to my toddlers, and they might be coming in very soon. I do apologize in advance to everyone.

I'm a little disappointed that we're moving this motion now. I agree with Ms. Kusie that we should be setting aside committee business, but I guess it's not surprising that we're doing this when labour is here to testify.

We don't have an objection to the minister appearing or to members of committee appearing. The only request we would make—and we hope it's a friendly amendment—is that the clerk work with the minister's office to find a time, and that we don't necessarily set a timeline.

As I messaged Ms. Kusie earlier today, the minister is happy to come to the committee in and around that time. We just want to find a time that works both for the minister and for the committee, rather than setting the firm deadline. If we can change the language to say “as soon as possible” or that “the clerk will work with the minister's office to find time”, we're happy to support that motion and the officials coming to committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Ms. Kusie, do you want to respond?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes. Again, it's unfortunate, frankly, that the government did not plan for committee business prior to calling in witnesses.

Also, Chair, the clerk did read out the first motion, which is the motion we are talking about, and Mr. Bittle was addressing the second motion.

This one was in regard to the MAX. Clearly the government has no comments about the MAX since they've already moved to the second motion, so then perhaps I would call the question for the first motion, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bittle, go ahead.