Transport Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2021

[Robert Deluce]

It's a complex question, and I'm not sure I fully understand what the question is.

I can tell you that, in our particular instance, particularly as it relates to refunds, we've taken our guidance largely from CTA. At the same time, we've gone above and beyond that guidance in certain circumstances where we examined the particular situation and we felt that there was a particular strain or situation that required more consideration for the particular passenger situation. In many instances, that resulted in going far beyond what the guidelines said.

The other thing I would say in our particular situation is that we're not long haul, so our fares aren't high; we're competitive. Generally, we have a very small percentage, much less than 1%, of the total outstanding refunds that will eventually have to flow back to customers either by way of credit shells that are used or otherwise refunded.

The amount we're looking at is significant. Whatever happens, it all has to be looked at in the context of what level of compensation or what level of assistance—I guess that's a better word—for a healthy restart is there in that package and how that fits in dealing with the refunds that properly need to go back and be used by passengers at some point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Deluce.

[Robert Deluce]

I'm not sure I hit your question.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Not very clearly.

[Robert Deluce]

I didn't get the full translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Deluce, and thank you, Mr. El-Khoury.

We're now going to move on to Mr. Barsalou-Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to put more questions to Mr. Gagnon.

In its latest economic update, the federal government announced that it was working on implementing an assistance program for regional air transportation. In parallel, the Government of Quebec, with François Bonnardel, as well as the Union des municipalités du Québec and a consultation group are developing their own regional air transportation policy for Quebec.

Before a new federal policy is implemented, do you think it would be important to find out what Quebec will implement and to ensure that this policy will be in line with that?

[Yani Gagnon]

Thank you for your question.

It does seem that many people have both hands in the cookie jar. The danger we face lies in counterproductive policies. So it is important for people to talk to each other and to have a good understanding of problems. It is also very important for all stakeholders to be heard.

Since the debate began, I have been hearing that the federal government is working on an assistance program focused mainly on the major air carriers. We were not part of those discussions. We have spoken to various individuals, from different levels of government, to let them know what the perspective of regional air carriers is and what role Pascan could play in Quebec, but also outside Quebec, since we are eligible for other markets, such as the Maritimes or even some of Ontario's regional markets.

However, we were not asked about how relevant we thought those initiatives are. So if government representatives want to hear our opinion on this, we would be happy to participate in those discussions.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Regarding everything that has been discussed with Nav Canada, such as fee increases and bonus payments, as an air carrier that must pay for Nav Canada's operating costs, how are you coping with this situation?

[Yani Gagnon]

I don't mean to put the spotlight on Nav Canada, but I would tell you that, generally speaking, it's always sort of the same tune.

All stakeholders increase rates every year, assuming that air carriers will be able to pass them on to passengers, even though that is completely impossible.

Large air carriers are participating in regional markets. In Quebec, one notable example is Air Canada, whose price policy is pretty weak. As I said in my statement, all kinds of tax and fee increases account for about 35% to 40%, which is huge.

If there are constant increases, but the air carrier's ability to pass the bill on to passengers is virtually non-existent, small carriers will be bled completely dry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Gagnon.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move to Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Deluce regarding passenger refunds.

First, all of Porter's current service tariffs specify that in the case of cancellations that are controllable for safety, including for cancellations due to COVID-19 risk, customers should be able to request a refund. Are they currently able to do so?

[Robert Deluce]

What I can tell you is that we've abided by the guidelines that were set out for us. In addition to that, in many instances we've exceeded those guidelines.

We're not finding it to be a bottleneck. I think when there are extenuating circumstances, we're examining those situations, and that's probably where we ultimately do end up exceeding the guidelines.

To go back to the specific question, I believe we're not only abiding by but exceeding what has been set out.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Following up on that, Mr. Deluce, there were two CTA rulings, which I'm sure you're familiar with, from 2013 and 2014, both filed with the Federal Court per subsection 33(1) of the Canada Transportation Act. They found that it's unreasonable to deny refunds even when the cancellations are uncontrollable.

Do you feel that your current cancellations are consistent with these two rulings?

[Robert Deluce]

Yes, I do think they are consistent. I think there are always factors that need to be taken into consideration. I think it's reasonable for airlines to provide travel vouchers and to make those vouchers extremely flexible, to make sure they continue to be adapted so the individuals do have access to them and when they do have an opportunity to fly they are able to do so, or to move those vouchers to whoever will be in a position to fly.

I think in our particular instance we're exceeding anything that was set out or that was considered reasonable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Deluce.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

To all witnesses, I want to express my sincere appreciation on behalf of all members as well as those who participated in today's meeting. I am sure all of the information you provided to us today will, in fact, help populate the report that the analysts will come back with, and members will deliberate to then bring a report to the House within due time.

Once again, I thank you for your time today.

Members, I thank you for your time today. It was a wonderful meeting. We will see you at our next meeting, on Thursday.

Have a great evening.