Transport Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I thank my honourable colleague, the parliamentary secretary, for this amount of time.

I want to just get it on the record, because I won't have time to ask questions about it, that I share the same concerns as Taylor Bachrach and Michael Kram about our air traffic controllers. I don't buy the safety answers so far from NavCan. I'm just putting it on the record.

I want to talk about our ground transportation system, which has been, I think, woefully ignored in COVID. This is about the buses, particularly the charter buses. They're in crisis. They're in free fall. They do a lot of really significant work. Wilson's bus line on Vancouver Island, for instance, has regularly scheduled runs that get to remote first nations communities. I'm wondering if our witnesses—and I don't want to take all the time asking the questions because it's an egregious situation—can tell us what is in the works to help the charter bus coalition across this country.

[Michael Keenan]

There has been a series of impacts in terms of the bus industry for a number of years. It actually predates COVID. Greyhound left western Canada and there was a tremendous amount of work done within the federal, provincial and territorial council of ministers of transportation and highway safety in terms of looking at the issues, looking at options and looking at strategies. The government had an initiative for a period to assist provinces, which have had the lead responsibility in overseeing the commercial bus industry since about 1954. The Government of Canada had a temporary program a few years ago to support provinces wishing to provide support for bus routes. The Province of B.C. took us up on that. I think they were the only one.

It remains a significant issue. I think you see a number of impacts. The intercity bus impacts are significant, as well as transit, because we focus a lot of time and put a lot of energy into dealing with the impact on the sector. It's significant and requires a significant amount of action. Local governments are also dealing with economic impacts on their transit systems because transit use is down. It's not down as much as air travel, but it's down significantly.

All governments are actually working through.... As the minister said, COVID-19 has had massive impacts on the country and there are a lot of adjustments required in all parts of the sector. Our focus to date has been on ensuring we actually have safety for the passengers. Whether they're on a plane, a train or a ferry, we want to ensure that the protocols are in place for safe passage. In the air sector, we're working intensely on the actions that we've already described.

In terms of transit and busing, that's, quite frankly, a national challenge. It's one where the lead jurisdiction is with the provincial and local governments, but it's a significant issue and will need to be worked through.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan, and thank you, Ms. May.

We're now going to move on to the Bloc for two and a half minutes.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, the floor is yours.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Keenan, we received documents related to the sale of Air Transat, including the public interest report, but they were redacted.

Now that the decision to authorize the transaction has been made by Minister Alghabra, could we receive the documents in their entirety?

I'm referring to Transport Canada's public interest report and Oxera's report on the price implications of this transaction. We had passed a motion to obtain all documents related to the transaction in the possession of the department, and I understand that the documents related to the Competition Bureau have not been provided to us.

I would therefore like to follow up on this motion passed by the committee to obtain the missing documents.

[Michael Keenan]

As the question from the member implies, throughout the process of the review of the proposed purchase of Air Transat by Air Canada, Transport Canada has done extensive analyses and reviewed a lot of documents. A significant chunk of that information is commercially confidential information. It's not releasable.

In response to a previous request of the committee, the—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I would just like you to commit to pass on to us anything that is now less confidential. Now that the minister's decision has been made, it seems to me that a number of things could be disclosed. We would be grateful if you could commit to that.

My second question concerns travel agencies. Are you holding any discussions on this subject? Since this sector of activity has already been hard hit, are we going to give guarantees to these agencies so that commissions are not taken away from them?

[Michael Keenan]

Thank you for your question.

I can only repeat my answer: the adverse effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on travel agencies are a reality that is being taken into consideration in negotiations with airlines.

There have been discussions with the independent travel agent industry and representatives. We understand the very devastating impact that COVID-19 has had on them and how they are caught in the middle on the refund issue. That issue is included and taken into account in the negotiations with the large airlines on a financial assistance strategy going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move on to the NDP.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Keenan.

Mr. Keenan, on the topic of Air Transat, one of the rationales that has been provided for approving that sale was the claim that Air Transat was likely to fail. I understand that the Competition Bureau has a standardized methodology for verifying this defence in the case of anti-competitive acquisitions.

I'm wondering if Transport Canada applied that methodology in making its determination that the sale was appropriate.

[Michael Keenan]

That's a great question, but I think the question has underneath it a key factor that's at play here. That is that the competition commissioner examines the transaction purely from the lens of competition. The government took that assessment into account, and in that assessment there is a particular test with respect to a failing firm and a whole bunch of issues that are from a very specific and narrow lens of competition.

In weighing all of the evidence and in reaching its decision, the government, as required under the Canada Transportation Act, took a broader perspective, including all aspects of the public interest. The government came to a conclusion that approving the transaction, with the strict terms and conditions that went along with that approval, offered the best outcome with respect to the public interest. That included a range of factors, from competition to impact on consumers, workers, air services and choices of air services in the recovery from COVID.

In summary, while the analysis of the competition commissioner was certainly taken into account, the government, in reaching its decision, considered a broader range of factors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bachrach, you have time for a quick question.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It was a fairly long answer. I think I got the gist of it, but I'm still curious because the minister specifically cited that the risk of Air Transat's failing was one of the key rationales for approving the sale. I'm wondering if Transport Canada applied the same methodology that the Competition Bureau uses to determine whether that's actually a valid argument at all.

[Michael Keenan]

In our analysis of the transaction, we consider the impact of COVID-19 a major factor. Interestingly, when we did the initial public interest assessment, it was just an emerging point. It was an emerging reality in the spring, and we know now that it's had a much deeper and more devastating impact on this sector. I would say that we certainly considered the analysis and the framework that the competition commissioner uses.

We've also looked at it from a broader, I would say, strategic economic-analysis perspective, looking at the impact of COVID-19, the likely duration and the likely recovery pathways for the Canadian air sector and the global air sector. We included all of that in our analysis and our advice. Based on that, taking into account all of these factors, the government concluded that the transaction was in the public interest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move on to our next round. Actually, no, we're just ending off our third round, so we're going to go on to Mr. Soroka for five minutes, followed by Ms. Jaczek for five minutes. Then we'll get into the fourth round, hopefully.

Mr. Soroka, you have the floor.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are going to be for Mr. Keenan then.

Last Friday, during the conference call on the new travel restrictions, did I hear correctly that immigrants or refugees will have to do the mandatory hotel stay, but that if they cannot afford the cost, the government will pay it?

[Michael Keenan]

I apologize. I wasn't actually on that call, so I'm struggling to provide a very precise answer to that. I'm going to see if any of my colleagues know whether or not.

Mr. Chair, I can offer to get back to the committee in answer to that question, but because this is something that's being administered by the Public Health Agency of Canada, I don't think we.... I can tell you that the OIC that enacts this has carved out a special case for refugees and asylum seekers, so the legal authority is there to do exactly that. The operational guidance that the Public Health Agency of Canada is using in enacting that I can't speak to authoritatively.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Is it possible to get that information? I want to make sure I heard correctly. Others might be interested and wanting to know this information. There also could be Canadians who don't have the funds to do this, so I'd like to know if that information is available.

[Michael Keenan]

In general, that carve-out is there to cover that case. We'll work with our colleagues from the Public Health Agency and provide that information to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Keenan, if you could forward that information to our clerk, that would be wonderful.

[Michael Keenan]

I'd be happy to so, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

Mr. Soroka.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not certain if you can answer this question. Under the new travel restrictions, travellers now have to quarantine in a government-approved hotel.

What criteria did the government use to determine which hotels would receive approval? Was it a bid process, a request for proposal or some other method?

[Michael Keenan]

It's a great question. In fact, the Public Health Agency of Canada did go out with a competitive bid process to hotels. There was a range of criteria. One was that they had to be situated very close to one of the four international airports that can receive international flights. They had to provide a range of services. Obviously, there was the room. In addition to that, they had to be able to abide by strict public health and safety protocols, security and transportation, etc.

As a result of that bidding process, the Public Health Agency selected a series of hotels. In fact, I believe the booking service has gone online today. There's one centralized number that anybody coming to Canada has to call to book one of these certified hotels that was selected through a competitive process.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

With the new travel restrictions, if a traveller has a negative test result, they will be required to continue to quarantine at their home and be retested towards the end of their quarantine. In the event of a positive result, they'll be redirected to the public health centre designated by the federal government.

How is it safer for the people who test negative that they may come into contact with someone who has the virus, instead of going straight home and self-isolating there?

[Michael Keenan]

I apologize, but I think I missed the central premise of the question. Would you mind repeating it?