Transport Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I have not seen that bill, and I look forward to taking a look at that bill. However, my colleague knows I cannot override NAV's decisions unless they end up having a negative impact on safety.

Having said that, I can assure him that I am very well aware of the anxiety that the risk of job losses is causing. Last Friday I had a meeting with my provincial counterparts, and you can check the eventual press release that was issued from that meeting. We discussed the anxiety that NAV CANADA's job losses may cause in communities, and we will collectively monitor the impact of those potential changes on the safety of Canadians.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

The unions representing NAV CANADA workers, including IBEW and PIPSC, met with the committee back in January and indicated that they had reached out to your office for a meeting. I'm wondering if you could tell us if you've had a chance to meet with those unions.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I've had several meetings with many stakeholders and different union members. I don't think I've had a chance to meet with the air traffic controller union yet. If I am wrong, I will be corrected.

Having said that, I am sure that if I haven't met with them, I will be speaking with them in short order. However, I'm well aware of the anxiety and the uncertainty that's happening right now for their jobs. I continue to monitor the study and the outcome of that study.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, you've mentioned several times the arm's length nature of NAV CANADA, which was privatized 25 years ago. Given what we're seeing in the pandemic and given the centrality of this organization's services to flying safety, to the support of the economy and to all of these things, is there not a strong argument for bringing NAV CANADA services back into the federal government so that there can be greater stability and so that these job losses of skilled professionals can be avoided? This could give some assurance to the air sector that these critical services are going to continue, that there's going to be a high level of safety and that the air sector will be supported moving forward.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I understand the instinctive reaction to renationalize NAV CANADA. Let me just say that putting NAV CANADA at an arm's length from government has served Canadians well. It has has served the industry well. It has depoliticized decision-making within NAV CANADA.

I understand what the honourable member is asking for. There are jobs here at stake. I understand why there are a lot of people concerned about those jobs, but we also have to be careful that we examine these situations within their context and make sure we make the right decisions to serve Canadians well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

You have time for a quick question, Taylor.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Maybe I'll ask a question on refunds. That's the next topic I wanted to go to, Minister.

We're in this odd situation right now where the government is saying there's going to be no assistance for the air sector without refunds to passengers. The airlines are saying there are going to be no refunds unless there is a financial assistance package.

How did we get to the point where passenger refunds have become a bargaining chip? We're a year into the pandemic and the airlines are still sitting on billions of dollars that rightly belong to these Canadian passengers. Could the minister tell us how we got here?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I think it's a simple answer. It's called COVID-19. When COVID-19 arrived, it didn't come with an instruction manual. It caused all kinds of havoc in many industries. Certainly the airline sector has been disproportionately affected by COVID-19 and the travel restrictions that are being imposed, not just by Canada but by the rest of the world. Passengers have been impacted. Workers have been impacted. Companies have been impacted. I recognize all of that and we're doing our best to support Canadians and to support Canadian jobs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

The first round is complete. Great job, everybody.

We're now going into the second round. For the first two speakers, we have Mr. Kram from the Conservatives and Mr. Sidhu from the Liberals. They have five minutes each, followed by Mr. Barsalou-Duval and Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes each.

Mr. Kram, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Good afternoon, Minister Alghabra, and welcome to the committee.

We've heard many witnesses at this committee say that resuming air travel after the pandemic will not be like turning on a light-switch. Skilled workers will have left the industry or left the country and will not be coming back. This is particularly true for air traffic controllers at NAV CANADA. As you are aware, NAV CANADA is planning to close seven air traffic control towers across the country, including the one in Regina.

Why don't you instruct NAV CANADA to stop its study to close air traffic control towers until air travel has returned to normal levels after the pandemic is over?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

If I institute instructions to NAV CANADA on its operation, I know this committee would be very interested in inviting me back to ask me why I am breaking the legislative powers that I have.

Let me say that I am not able to prejudge the outcome of the studies that NAV CANADA is doing right now. Having said that, I have heard loudly the anxiety and the concerns about job losses. I am monitoring the situation. I await the study that NAV CANADA is conducting. I can tell him and all Canadians that any changes that will have an impact on safety will be reviewed by Transport Canada.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you.

Minister Alghabra, the Aeronautics Act gives the transport minister broad oversight for the responsibility to oversee the safe and efficient operations of Canada's airspace. It's very important to understand that when a city loses its air traffic control tower, that makes it that much more difficult to attract new flights to the city, which makes it more difficult to attract conferences, conventions, sporting events and all the rest of it.

Mr. Minister, there's nothing stopping you from picking up the phone, calling NAV CANADA and telling them that these tower closures are a bad idea. Why don't you do that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I know that NAV CANADA appeared before this committee and that members had a chance to ask them questions, which is great. I think the committee is doing its job representing Canadians. However, again, I'll tell the honourable member that I cannot do something that the law does not allow me to do.

He was right when he said that I have powers over the protection of the safety of Canadians, and that's what I have been repeating. Any decision that NAV CANADA makes that will have an impact on safety will be reviewed by Transport Canada.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Minister Alghabra, over the past few weeks, this committee has heard from witnesses from the Canadian Air Traffic Control Association, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada. All three of these unions are requesting a $750-million subsidy for NAV CANADA, contingent on there being no layoffs. That seems like a pretty good idea to me. Why doesn't the government do that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Let me just say that I am somewhat confused at the Conservatives' position. There seems to be some inconsistency there. On the one hand, they're saying that we're spending too much money supporting Canadians. On the other hand, they're asking us to spend more.

Let me address the point that he's making. Right now, NAV CANADA is an arm's length organization that makes its operational decisions independently. If there are any changes that will risk Canadians' safety, Transport Canada will review those decisions.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

According to the government's supplementary estimates, Via Rail has received just over $1 billion to subsidize the operating costs of passenger train services since the start of the pandemic.

I wonder if the minister could explain what makes passenger train service so important that it warrants a $1-billion bailout, but NAV CANADA and the air travel sector so unimportant that they do not deserve any sector-specific support for their operations costs.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I think the honourable member is trying to mix apples and oranges. Via Rail provides an essential service to passengers, particularly in towns and cities that need that as an essential service.

NAV CANADA has not decided, and if they do have an impact on the safety of air traffic, that's another discussion. Right now Via Rail needed to maintain its essential service for Canadians. Again, I would say that if Via Rail was unable to deliver its service, this committee would be calling on me to provide that support for that essential service. We're talking about an essential service here. As for NAV CANADA, we have yet to see what their decisions will be and what their final level of service will be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Alghabra.

Thank you, Mr. Kram.

We're now going to move on to our next speaker.

Mr. Sidhu, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Good afternoon, Minister. Congratulations on your new role and for being with us here today.

As part of your supplemental mandate letter, you're tasked with working with ministerial colleagues to make zero-emission vehicles more affordable. We know that Transport Canada has been leading the incentives for zero-emission vehicles program. Has the program been successful in making these vehicles more affordable for Canadians?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you to my colleague for his kind remarks and for his question.

Look, climate change is an integral part of our commitment, mandate and promise to Canadians. That we support the integration of zero-emission vehicles into the marketplace is an essential part. You may know that 30% of emissions in Canada come from the transportation sector, so we want to find a way to facilitate the acceleration of the adoption of zero-emission vehicles.

The incentives for adoption have been extremely successful. In fact, we saw a significant increase between 2019 and 2020 in the adoption of zero-emission vehicles, so yes, it's been successful. We look forward to building on that success.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

For Canadians who have purchased used vehicles, is the government considering any measures to make used zero-emission vehicles more affordable? I know this is important to so many in my constituency.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes, we are exploring the option of expanding the incentive to used vehicles. I know the argument says that it doesn't necessarily mean that there will be new zero-emission vehicles on the marketplace, but we think it will actually in fact help because it will help individuals who may otherwise not be able to afford a brand new zero-emission vehicle to buy a used one. Then the people who sold it might be able to move on and buy a newer zero-emission vehicle.

We are exploring the option and we'll get back to you when we have finalized our assessment.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Trade is so important to so many industries in my riding. The transportation sector is huge here in Brampton. We have many truckers, and we have rail and cargo coming in through various modes.

Can you provide an update on efforts to enhance our trade corridors to increase global market access for Canadian goods?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Absolutely. Trade diversification and trade expansion have been a big part of our government's commitment to Canadians.

I served before as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade and I know that as a trading nation, where one out of six jobs depends on trade, making sure that we have the right infrastructure in Canada to facilitate the growth of trade is important. That's why I am proud to have, within Transport Canada, a fund for a national trade corridor. The first iteration of that fund that was launched in 2017 has been extremely successful. We're looking forward to examining further opportunities to expand and build on that success.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Minister, I know your department is looking at testing essential workers at the border. Talks may be ongoing, but can you please provide some background on this, as I am getting a couple of calls from constituents on this matter?