Transport Committee on April 20th, 2021

[Barry Field]

I think you could eliminate the population argument, that x per cent of the population gets x per cent of the money.

I think ultimately you have to look at the need and the unique nature of the territory, the geography, you're trying to serve.

Going back to my earlier argument—that bringing this down to the regional level, having local input, is very important to resolving this issue—resolving the issue in southwestern Ontario is going to be very different from resolving it in the Northwest Territories. There are different challenges, different geographies, different settlement patterns, and all sorts of things that make each one of those areas unique. I think if it is brought down to the provincial and regional levels, those levels will be better able to understand and adapt to those requirements.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

It's an interesting concept.

It seems to me, certainly from the perspective of my own community, things are working quite well now.

If I have some time left, Ms. Beck, could you just give us some idea of the affordability of the services you're trying to provide through Lightspeed? How does the cost compare to that for conventional fibre?

[Michele Beck]

Telesat Lightspeed service doesn't compete with fibre. We're not here to compete directly where it is affordable and economical to deploy fibre.

We target regions where the business case is strained, to really bring fibre to these very rural and remote areas of the country and, equally, around the world.

You actually have to compare the cost of deploying fibre to these most rural areas that are far from existing fibre today. That's where the LEO Lightspeed service and the backhaul connectivity become more economical to connect all of these remote communities.

Sometimes it's distance and sometimes it's geography that creates the challenge in deploying fibre or even microwave connectivity to reach these communities.

We do target the areas that are the hardest to serve and the hardest to reach, but we can do that on a more economical basis than could be done by deploying a terrestrial network solution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Beck and Ms. Jaczek.

We are now going to move on to our third round of questions, starting with the Conservatives and Mr. Soroka for five minutes.

Have we lost Mr. Soroka?

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Part of the problem was I was talking with my staff at the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

No problem, go ahead.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Pardon me for that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Field, your organization's regional broadband project indicates that you're receiving $63.7 million from the federal government, approximately 30% of the total project cost. What caught my eye was that the funding came from the new building Canada fund.

I am curious. Since you say you need more money, have you applied for other programs through the universal broadband fund or through the Canada Infrastructure Bank?

[Barry Field]

As it's currently developed, SWIFT, as a municipal organization, cannot apply directly for funding through the universal broadband fund. The same goes for the Canada Infrastructure Bank. As a municipally led organization, we're not in a position to apply for funding under the CIB rules.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I know you had talked about consolidating the different funding options. In my riding I had an issue where an Indigenous group has a program whereby they can service other Indigenous communities, and they are plowing fibre optics directly into the communities, which is great, but then they bypass so many along the way because that was never part of their program, so I'm seeing the failures from these different funding options.

Through SWIFT, have you mitigated that or are there still some loopholes in your organizations as well?

[Barry Field]

Absolutely, we address that head on and upfront.

It's very clear in any contract we sign with an ISP that if they run fibre in front of a premises, they will serve that premises.

Far too often we hear from residents in southwestern Ontario telling us they can see some fibre hanging that they could probably touch; they just can't get access to it. Under the SWIFT program, we don't allow that. If a design passes somebody's home, they have to serve that home.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I don't know if my next question is for Mr. Pruneau or Mr. Péladeau.

Last year when the minister announced the results of the 600 megahertz auction, he noted that the government set-aside policy had created more competition for Canadians, but we are hearing that set-aside bidders have a poor track record of deploying spectrum in rural communities.

What is your company's experience with this, and would you agree there should be a “use it or lose it” condition to ensure that spectrum is deployed in rural Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Was that for Mr. Péladeau, Mr. Soroka?

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

It's his company, but I know Mr. Péladeau is answering as well, so if Mr. Pruneau could answer, I'm fine with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Okay, go ahead.

[Jean-François Pruneau, President and Chief Executive Officer, Vidéotron ltée]

Our experience in the province of Quebec is that we've used all of the spectrum we have bought so far, and I'm satisfied with the spectrum specifically. I'm not sure if the other operators across Canada have used the spectrum they bought and satisfied the spectrum option, but in our case we did. That probably explains why the service we provide to Quebeckers is a great service; it's very reliable, and we cover approximately 90% of the population now with our network in the province of Quebec. We have used the spectrum we bought.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Yes, Mr. Pruneau, that's what I'm saying. I'm glad you used it, but with regard to the companies that buy the spectrum but don't use it—which is now potentially out there so that you or your company could be using it—do you think there should be a “use it or lose it” condition when these companies buy the spectrum?

[Jean-François Pruneau]

Obviously, I understand the reason for making some spectrum available to operators is that it be used, and there are conditions in the spectrum licensing conditions that request us to develop our network with the spectrum we bought. It is probably already provided for in the spectrum licensing conditions right now.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Okay.

Ms. Beck, do you think the programs are addressing the needs of Canadians to access the Internet?

What funding options have you applied for?

[Michele Beck]

We have traditionally not applied for any funding programs as part of broadband deployments. We have actively worked with local and regional ISPs, indigenous and community-led ISPs. They have been the applicant for funding and they have come to Telesat to secure the backhaul satellite connectivity to connect their communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Beck and Mr. Soroka.

We're now going to move to our next speaker for the Liberals, Mr. Rogers, for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, to all of our witnesses, this evening. I have a question for Mr. Field first of all.

Mr. Field, you noted the municipal contributions and involvement in many of the programs that you are involved with, and of course you identified the challenge of a coordinated approach and how that poses its own challenges. In the launch of the universal broadband fund, our government included a new service called the “pathfinder service” in order to assist small applicants especially with the application process. To my understanding, this was really well received, as small municipalities face challenges with capacity, especially during the pandemic period. Do you have any experience with this service, and if so, did you find it helpful? Is this something that should be considered in other federal funding programs, particularly as it applies to smaller and more rural and remote communities?

[Barry Field]

Thank you for that.

Yes, in fact I was able to use the pathfinder service for an application that I assisted with on Pelee Island, a small island in Lake Erie here in southern Ontario. It's a very small community with about 350 residents. They didn't really have the resources to fill out some of these rather complicated applications. I think that is exactly what the pathfinder service was there for, as kind of what I think they call a concierge service, to help the ISPs and the applicants through the process. We did use it in the UBF application I assisted Pelee Island with, and it worked very well.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Field.

Perhaps I'll go to Mr. Péladeau on this one with regard to the CRTC.

Can you discuss how the recent ruling from the CRTC on old cell rates will help address the connectivity gaps in rural and underserviced communities?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

You are referring to last week's decision?

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

That's correct.